FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Electronix » cad
OrCAD fun & games
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [25 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  1, 2 Next
Author Message
Stuart Brorson
electronics forum addict


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu> wrote:
: I'll be teaching a course starting Monday, and we will be using and
: learning about OrCAD v10. We have demo version and licensed full
: version access. I am using the full version.

: Just when I think I'm starting to figure our OrCAD, it will do
: something crazy, giving me a message but not giving any answers.

Ummm, is there any reason you aren't using a free, open-source CAD
package for your class? Both gEDA and Kicad are great for an
academic setting, and your students can get fully-featured versions of
these programs without shelling out scarce money for the software.

And if OrCAD is too buggy for the teacher, how will the students learn
from it?

I often wonder why we teach students using programs they can't afford
in school, aren't any better than the FOSS versions, and they may not
use in real life anyway....

Stuart
Back to top
Spehro Pefhany
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:28:44 -0400, the renowned Phil Munro
<PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu> wrote:

Quote:
I'll be teaching a course starting Monday, and we will be using and
learning about OrCAD v10. We have demo version and licensed full
version access. I am using the full version.

Just when I think I'm starting to figure our OrCAD, it will do
something crazy, giving me a message but not giving any answers.

Here is my latest two things. They were connected! I tried to move
a whole circuit (four bjts) up toward the left corner of the display,
and OrCAD gave me a message that said it could not recover and I would
be closed down. Since I did not want to change the files I started
with, I said no to any save requests. The ERROR was weird #1 occurrence.

Then when opening OrCAD and the project again, when I tried to edit
the PSpice model for one of the bjts, I was told that the editor was
already running and would have to be close. OK, where is it running,
and how to I close something I cannot find?

That's what Task Manager is for. Wink You should be able to identify
the process that is running and kill it.

Quote:
Apparently when OrCAD has a serious problem and kills itself, something
is left behind with new startups.

Anyone have some ideas or help with these things? And am I just
still a slow learner when it comes to OrCAD?

I was finally able to get it started and working again, but I am not
sure what I did to help it go again! --Phil


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Back to top
JeffM
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1007

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

Quote:
I was told that the editor was already running
and would have to be [closed]. OK, where is it running,
and how to I close something I cannot find?
Phil Munro

That's what Task Manager is for. Wink
You should be able to identify the process that is running and kill it.
Spehro Pefhany

....and if that won't do it:
http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/ProcessExplorer.html
..
..
I also find the use of non-open software odd
in an academic setting in the year 2006.
Back to top
Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:28:44 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu>
wrote:

Quote:
I'll be teaching a course starting Monday, and we will be using and
learning about OrCAD v10. We have demo version and licensed full
version access. I am using the full version.

Just when I think I'm starting to figure our OrCAD, it will do
something crazy, giving me a message but not giving any answers.

Here is my latest two things. They were connected! I tried to move
a whole circuit (four bjts) up toward the left corner of the display,
and OrCAD gave me a message that said it could not recover and I would
be closed down. Since I did not want to change the files I started
with, I said no to any save requests. The ERROR was weird #1 occurrence.

Then when opening OrCAD and the project again, when I tried to edit
the PSpice model for one of the bjts, I was told that the editor was
already running and would have to be close. OK, where is it running,
and how to I close something I cannot find?

Apparently when OrCAD has a serious problem and kills itself, something
is left behind with new startups.

Anyone have some ideas or help with these things? And am I just
still a slow learner when it comes to OrCAD?

I was finally able to get it started and working again, but I am not
sure what I did to help it go again! --Phil

You probably re-booted.

OrCAD Capture sucks the biggest lemon ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
colin_toogood@yahoo.com
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

All software has a paradigm behind it, ie the expected way to use it.

ORCAD has the paradigm that they document and then there is the
paradigm that works. Having used ORCAD capture and layout for over ten
years it very rarely crashes on me, not because it has got better but
because I know instinctively what works and it no longer even occurs to
me to try any other way.

If you want to use the features that KiCad gives you then perhaps
ORCAD looks better on your students CVs but don't expect to rely on any
advanced features.

Colin
Back to top
Phil Munro
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:28:44 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu
wrote:

I'll be teaching a course ...

I was finally able to get it started and working again, but I am not
sure what I did to help it go again! --Phil

You probably re-booted.

OrCAD Capture sucks the biggest lemon ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Am I right that people still don't like OrCAD Capture? On the other

hand, I'm getting a little more comfortable with it. Interestingly, I
did use task manager and close a program that was running and shouldn't
have had anything to do with OrCAD; I did not reboot.

Thanks for the few useful comments besides those who think I should
be using some other software. --Phil


--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
mailto:PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555
Back to top
Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:37:41 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu>
wrote:

Quote:


Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:28:44 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu
wrote:

I'll be teaching a course ...

I was finally able to get it started and working again, but I am not
sure what I did to help it go again! --Phil

You probably re-booted.

OrCAD Capture sucks the biggest lemon ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Am I right that people still don't like OrCAD Capture? On the other
hand, I'm getting a little more comfortable with it. Interestingly, I
did use task manager and close a program that was running and shouldn't
have had anything to do with OrCAD; I did not reboot.

Thanks for the few useful comments besides those who think I should
be using some other software. --Phil

OrCAD under DOS was a good program... under Windows it has gone
steadily downhill... Cadence has about killed it.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
colin_toogood@yahoo.com
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

I never understand these sorts of posts. I've used layout since before
ORCAD bought it (hence the .max extension (MaxEDA) for layout files)
and capture since ver 5.something.

Quote:
From what I hear on this NG protel users are dealing with work arounds
all the time, and don't like using newer versions than protel 99.


I would entirely agree that paying maintenance for ORCAD is money down
the drain.

There are two things you can't do with layout, microvias (difficult to
stop a microvia being put on top of a buried via) and decent SI
controls such as length matching etc.

I have no spice experience so can't comment

Colin


Quote:

OrCAD under DOS was a good program... under Windows it has gone
steadily downhill... Cadence has about killed it.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
PeterSmith1954@googlemail
electronics forum addict


Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:37:41 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:28:44 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu
wrote:

I'll be teaching a course ...

I was finally able to get it started and working again, but I am not
sure what I did to help it go again! --Phil

You probably re-booted.

OrCAD Capture sucks the biggest lemon ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Am I right that people still don't like OrCAD Capture? On the other
hand, I'm getting a little more comfortable with it. Interestingly, I
did use task manager and close a program that was running and shouldn't
have had anything to do with OrCAD; I did not reboot.

Thanks for the few useful comments besides those who think I should
be using some other software. --Phil

OrCAD under DOS was a good program... under Windows it has gone
steadily downhill... Cadence has about killed it.

Cadence discontinued direct sales of OrCad some time ago. It's still
available, but only through 'partners'.

OrCad under Linux or Solaris (when part of the pack with Allegro) is
far less crash prone, but has the same general issues it has under
Windows.

My favourite internal gotcha with OrCad is if a net is dual aliased
(for some reason), it can sometimes rename (effectively disconnecting)
the net.

This happens if you alias a net offpage first, but not all the time -
it's one of the reasons I manually check the nets in the netlist.

Have some net going to an offpage connector, and name it at the offpage
connector (Offpage1, for instance).

Now go off and do some other stuff with a netlist in the middle (sanity
check perhaps). Note that attaching an offpage connector with a valid
name aliases the net automatically (and silently) on the same page.

Now name the net (with any name, same or different) and attach
something else to the net (with a separate wire), using CTRL-N to alias
that part of the net.

About 50% of the time, you'll get two different nets.

The percentage goes higher if you alias the net on another page (from
that offpage connector) with a different name.

I have had this - I had a net (BATT_SENS) that went offpage, but had
been aliased prior to this as BATTERY_SENSE. I cleaned up the aliasing
(but without deleting the old wires and reconnecting).

I ended up with two nets (that according to OrCad internally were
connected) in the netlist:

BATT_SENS
BATT_SENS_Nxxxxxxxx (where Nxxxxxxxx is a standard autoname for a net
in OrCad).

I was not amused when my battery sensing was not connected at the
layout stage. As I said, that's why I now check my netlists manually
from OrCad.

Cheers

PeteS


Quote:

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
qrk
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

On 4 Jul 2006 05:49:16 -0700, "PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com"
<PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
On Mon, 03 Jul 2006 19:37:41 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:28:44 -0400, Phil Munro <PcMunro@cc.ysu.edu
wrote:

I'll be teaching a course ...

I was finally able to get it started and working again, but I am not
sure what I did to help it go again! --Phil

You probably re-booted.

OrCAD Capture sucks the biggest lemon ;-)

...Jim Thompson
Am I right that people still don't like OrCAD Capture? On the other
hand, I'm getting a little more comfortable with it. Interestingly, I
did use task manager and close a program that was running and shouldn't
have had anything to do with OrCAD; I did not reboot.

Thanks for the few useful comments besides those who think I should
be using some other software. --Phil

OrCAD under DOS was a good program... under Windows it has gone
steadily downhill... Cadence has about killed it.

Cadence discontinued direct sales of OrCad some time ago. It's still
available, but only through 'partners'.

OrCad under Linux or Solaris (when part of the pack with Allegro) is
far less crash prone, but has the same general issues it has under
Windows.

My favourite internal gotcha with OrCad is if a net is dual aliased
(for some reason), it can sometimes rename (effectively disconnecting)
the net.

This happens if you alias a net offpage first, but not all the time -
it's one of the reasons I manually check the nets in the netlist.

Have some net going to an offpage connector, and name it at the offpage
connector (Offpage1, for instance).

Now go off and do some other stuff with a netlist in the middle (sanity
check perhaps). Note that attaching an offpage connector with a valid
name aliases the net automatically (and silently) on the same page.

Now name the net (with any name, same or different) and attach
something else to the net (with a separate wire), using CTRL-N to alias
that part of the net.

About 50% of the time, you'll get two different nets.

The percentage goes higher if you alias the net on another page (from
that offpage connector) with a different name.

I have had this - I had a net (BATT_SENS) that went offpage, but had
been aliased prior to this as BATTERY_SENSE. I cleaned up the aliasing
(but without deleting the old wires and reconnecting).

I ended up with two nets (that according to OrCad internally were
connected) in the netlist:

BATT_SENS
BATT_SENS_Nxxxxxxxx (where Nxxxxxxxx is a standard autoname for a net
in OrCad).

I was not amused when my battery sensing was not connected at the
layout stage. As I said, that's why I now check my netlists manually
from OrCad.

Cheers

PeteS

One of the reasons I still use SDT (Orcad's old DOS schematic
program). Stable, fast, and produces solid net lists.

---
Mark
Back to top
Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:56 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 23:27:33 GMT, qrk <SpamTrap@spam.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 4 Jul 2006 05:49:16 -0700, "PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com"
PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com> wrote:

[snip]
I was not amused when my battery sensing was not connected at the
layout stage. As I said, that's why I now check my netlists manually
from OrCad.

Cheers

PeteS

One of the reasons I still use SDT (Orcad's old DOS schematic
program). Stable, fast, and produces solid net lists.

---
Mark

As does Ol' Original Flavor PSpice Schematics.

If you want the .INI file that allows Schematics to "talk", send me an
E-mail.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
Joel Kolstad
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 695

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

"Stuart Brorson" <sdb@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:12ab50bnjmtt30c@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Ummm, is there any reason you aren't using a free, open-source CAD
package for your class? Both gEDA and Kicad are great for an
academic setting

I'd suggest this isn't really the case. Just getting gEDA and Kicad
*installed* on the average student's laptop is a lot more effort than the
running of "setup.exe" that you do with ORCAD.

Quote:
And if OrCAD is too buggy for the teacher, how will the students learn
from it?

ORCAD is actually not particularly buggy in my opinion, compared to many other
EDA packages I've used. To some extent this derives from the fact that ORCAD
is a pretty mature product -- very little new development is occurring with
it; it hasn't had any large changes in 5+ years now.

Quote:
I often wonder why we teach students using programs they can't afford
in school

Because most students fully expect to work for employers who *will* be able to
afford those package. In many companies, the cost of software tools is
realatively small compared to the overall cost of doing business.

Quote:
aren't any better than the FOSS versions

gEDA and Kicad don't seem to fall into this category yet.

Quote:
and they may not
use in real life anyway....

The average student graduating this year or in the next few years has a far
better chance of ending up using ORCAD commercially than gEDA or Kicad.
Back to top
Joel Kolstad
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 695

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

"JeffM" <jeffm_@email.com> wrote in message
news:1151704841.160808.90740@y41g2000cwy.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
I also find the use of non-open software odd
in an academic setting in the year 2006.

IMHO this largely parallels the fact that most universities have given up
generating *high quality* software themselves. Why is it that SPICE,
originally developed nearly 100% at universities, now has almost *no* ongoing
development in academia? Most software that comes out of academia today is
considerably buggier than what comes out of the open-source movement, much
less commercial software houses.
Back to top
Joel Kolstad
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 695

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

<colin_toogood@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151997260.163689.263060@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
There are two things you can't do with layout, microvias (difficult to
stop a microvia being put on top of a buried via) and decent SI
controls such as length matching etc.

There are also many features that ORCAD capture is missing that most other
schematic capture tools have these days. I don't think there's anything
inherently wrong with Cadence choosing to keep the ORCAD feature set pretty
much frozen in time, but if *I'm* the one shelling out bucks for an EDA tool,
it's very difficult to make ORCAD look like a good value proposition. The one
area where it still tends to be much better than other programs is with the
built-in database integratoin (CIS option) -- Pulsonix, Protel, Kicad, etc.
don't even attempt to do this, last I looked.

Quote:
I have no spice experience so can't comment

I suspect that even Jim would admit that doing something that *should* be
simple -- like overlaying a couple of simulator runs on top of each other on
the same graph -- is a lot harder in PSpice than it should be!
Back to top
Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: OrCAD fun & games Reply with quote

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:15:46 -0700, "Joel Kolstad"
<JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
colin_toogood@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1151997260.163689.263060@v61g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
There are two things you can't do with layout, microvias (difficult to
stop a microvia being put on top of a buried via) and decent SI
controls such as length matching etc.

There are also many features that ORCAD capture is missing that most other
schematic capture tools have these days. I don't think there's anything
inherently wrong with Cadence choosing to keep the ORCAD feature set pretty
much frozen in time, but if *I'm* the one shelling out bucks for an EDA tool,
it's very difficult to make ORCAD look like a good value proposition. The one
area where it still tends to be much better than other programs is with the
built-in database integratoin (CIS option) -- Pulsonix, Protel, Kicad, etc.
don't even attempt to do this, last I looked.

I have no spice experience so can't comment

I suspect that even Jim would admit that doing something that *should* be
simple -- like overlaying a couple of simulator runs on top of each other on
the same graph -- is a lot harder in PSpice than it should be!


I'm PSpice's biggest critic.

I don't do PCB, so I can't comment there, but Capture is just a
*horrible* schematics program.

So I use the venerable original (MicroSim) PSpice Schematics.

As for overlaying multiple simulator runs on top of each other I have
a trick...

(1) Print each run to a PostScript (*.ps) file

(2) Concatenate all your *.ps files along with the appropriate header
and footer () using ConCat (from www.jddesign.co.uk)

(3) Edit out any conflicting/overlapping text.

(4) Convert to PDF with Adobe Acrobat

() Contact me for the header/footer files if you're interested.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 1 of 2 [25 Posts] Goto page:  1, 2 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:17 pm | All times are GMT
Forum index » Electronix » cad
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts Orcad component library soecifications H. Martins cad 2 Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:34 pm
No new posts Orcad Capture Help Irfan cad 1 Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:47 am
No new posts Orcad Capture Help Irfan design 1 Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:47 am
No new posts Orcad Capture Help Irfan Basics 5 Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:52 pm
No new posts Independent noise sources in Orcad. interpasha@hotmail.com cad 4 Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:35 pm

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: Unix/Linux blog |  Unix/Linux documentation |  Unix/Linux forums |  Medicine forum |  Science forum  |  Send and track newsletters


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group