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Flag desecration?
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 19:10:17 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:

Quote:
In article <1152031691.985427.102710@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
Luhan <luhanis@yahoo.com> wrote:
[....]
Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a
symbol. You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol.
Creating a special case for our flag does not mean it would no longer
stand for freedom, it just means it would stand for a bit less.

Just make it out of something that doesn't burn.

--

Or make the smoke lethal ?:-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 12:14:09 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> Gave us:

Quote:
On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 19:10:17 +0000 (UTC), kensmith@green.rahul.net (Ken
Smith) wrote:

In article <1152031691.985427.102710@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
Luhan <luhanis@yahoo.com> wrote:
[....]
Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a
symbol. You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol.
Creating a special case for our flag does not mean it would no longer
stand for freedom, it just means it would stand for a bit less.

Just make it out of something that doesn't burn.

--

Or make the smoke lethal ?:-)


IAWTP
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Bill Green
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Richard Henry wrote:
Quote:
A propos for July 4th:

snip

2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.


It's not just TV personalities (well):
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/bushflag.jpg
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Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 20:12:57 GMT, Bill Green <bill@supposed.orgly>
Gave us:

Quote:
It's not just TV personalities (well):
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/bushflag.jpg

Wow...
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Tom Del Rosso
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Richard Henry <pomerado@hotmail.com> typed
in news://1152029207.187651.130500@j8g2000cwa.googlegroups.com,

Quote:
2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.

And sometimes people with flags printed on their shirts condemn those who
fly it upside down. They've gotten the rules upside down.


--

Reply in group, but if emailing add another
zero, and remove the last word.
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<ifitwereme@hotfellows
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a symbol.
You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol. Creating a special
case for our flag does not mean it would no longer stand for freedom, it
just means it would stand for a bit less.

Just make it out of something that doesn't burn.

Or make the smoke lethal ?:-)

We already make some flags from HEMP fibre. That's close enough to drugs for
me! Maybe they are smoking them flags!
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Bill Sloman
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 1080

PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Luhan wrote:
Quote:
bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
On 4 Jul 2006 09:48:12 -0700, "Luhan" <luhanis@yahoo.com> wrote:


Richard Henry wrote:
A propos for July 4th:

1. Yesterday I dropped my daughter off at a friend's house for a pool
party. I noticed small US flags planted at the corneers of the public
and private sidewalks thorughout the neighborhood. I looked closely at
the flag in front of the friend's house: below the flag on the stick
was an advertising banner for a local mortgage company.

2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.

3. (A little late for Dominion Day (oops, according to wikipedia it is
now officially Canada Day)): on the OLN Tour de France show this
morning I noticed a Canadian flag painted in the middle of the road,
right where many of the bicycles had to ride over it.


I'm a veteran.

Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a
symbol. You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol.
Creating a special case for our flag does not mean it would no longer
stand for freedom, it just means it would stand for a bit less.

Luhan

Agreed!

However I would like a LAW... burn a flag in my presence enables me a
one-time exercise of a right without penalty... one shot upside your
head with a shovel ;-)

My, how I wish Jim had enough sense to realise that you can't have laws
like that - it's just one more version of vigilante action, and sillier
than most.

I fully support Jim's right to be a really pissed-off American!!

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Someone who runs around beating on people's heads with a shovel because
he doesn't approve of their take on political symbolism might not be a
scoundrel, but would look very like one.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:52:06 GMT, <ifitwereme@hotfellowship.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a symbol.
You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol. Creating a special
case for our flag does not mean it would no longer stand for freedom, it
just means it would stand for a bit less.

Just make it out of something that doesn't burn.

Or make the smoke lethal ?:-)

We already make some flags from HEMP fibre. That's close enough to drugs for
me! Maybe they are smoking them flags!


Good idea... hemp flags!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

On Tue, 04 Jul 2006 22:52:06 GMT, <ifitwereme@hotfellowship.com> Gave
us:

Quote:
Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a symbol.
You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol. Creating a special
case for our flag does not mean it would no longer stand for freedom, it
just means it would stand for a bit less.

Just make it out of something that doesn't burn.

Or make the smoke lethal ?:-)

We already make some flags from HEMP fibre. That's close enough to drugs for
me! Maybe they are smoking them flags!

Meaningless crap.
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mrdarrett@gmail.com
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 305

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:20 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Fred Bloggs wrote:
Quote:

1. Yesterday I dropped my daughter off at a friend's house for a pool
party. I noticed small US flags planted at the corneers of the public
and private sidewalks thorughout the neighborhood. I looked closely at
the flag in front of the friend's house: below the flag on the stick
was an advertising banner for a local mortgage company.

2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.

3. (A little late for Dominion Day (oops, according to wikipedia it is
now officially Canada Day)): on the OLN Tour de France show this
morning I noticed a Canadian flag painted in the middle of the road,
right where many of the bicycles had to ride over it.


The whole bit with the flag is just more irrelevant hoi-poloi political
bs for the ignoraTards. The truth is pretty bad, the nation has gone to
hell. For example:

quote
The premeditated rape and murders are just the latest in the long line
of horrific war crimes from Abu Ghraib to Haditha. Bush supporters are
still in denial about each incident. It is amazing that Bush supporters
think we have a John Wayne military when, according to news reports,
recruitment problems have resulted in the military accepting felons,
drug users, thugs, low-IQ high school dropouts, and illegal Mexicans
promised green cards for signing up. Apparently, the same people who
make America's streets unsafe for Americans make Iraqi streets unsafe
for Iraqis. In response to the declining caliber of new recruits, some
of our best troops are refusing to reenlist. Several have written to me
that "the Army has left them."
end quote

In addition, some of the larger urban gangs are making their members
enlist in the Army for the specific purpose of receiving urban warfare
training. This has been reported by several reservists who were also
civilian police gang crime experts in the US- they noticed the tell-tale
graffiti on our armored vehicles in Iraq- and lots of troops walking
around with gang memebership tatoos.


Really...? Do you have a reference or two for these?

I came up with this, which wasn't quite as scary as what you posted...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-waiver19.html

Happy 4th,

Michael
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Terry Given
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 868

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
Fred Bloggs wrote:

1. Yesterday I dropped my daughter off at a friend's house for a pool
party. I noticed small US flags planted at the corneers of the public
and private sidewalks thorughout the neighborhood. I looked closely at
the flag in front of the friend's house: below the flag on the stick
was an advertising banner for a local mortgage company.

2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.

3. (A little late for Dominion Day (oops, according to wikipedia it is
now officially Canada Day)): on the OLN Tour de France show this
morning I noticed a Canadian flag painted in the middle of the road,
right where many of the bicycles had to ride over it.


The whole bit with the flag is just more irrelevant hoi-poloi political
bs for the ignoraTards. The truth is pretty bad, the nation has gone to
hell. For example:

quote
The premeditated rape and murders are just the latest in the long line
of horrific war crimes from Abu Ghraib to Haditha. Bush supporters are
still in denial about each incident. It is amazing that Bush supporters
think we have a John Wayne military when, according to news reports,
recruitment problems have resulted in the military accepting felons,
drug users, thugs, low-IQ high school dropouts, and illegal Mexicans
promised green cards for signing up. Apparently, the same people who
make America's streets unsafe for Americans make Iraqi streets unsafe
for Iraqis. In response to the declining caliber of new recruits, some
of our best troops are refusing to reenlist. Several have written to me
that "the Army has left them."
end quote

In addition, some of the larger urban gangs are making their members
enlist in the Army for the specific purpose of receiving urban warfare
training. This has been reported by several reservists who were also
civilian police gang crime experts in the US- they noticed the tell-tale
graffiti on our armored vehicles in Iraq- and lots of troops walking
around with gang memebership tatoos.


thats actually pretty clever. and they get paid, too.

Quote:


Really...? Do you have a reference or two for these?

I came up with this, which wasn't quite as scary as what you posted...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-waiver19.html

Happy 4th,

Michael


A british soldier was recently quoted as saying:

"we are given an education. they are shown how to use a gun. The Iraqis
can tell the difference"

Cheers
Terry
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Terry Given
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 868

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:35 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
Quote:
Luhan wrote:

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:

On 4 Jul 2006 09:48:12 -0700, "Luhan" <luhanis@yahoo.com> wrote:


Richard Henry wrote:

A propos for July 4th:

1. Yesterday I dropped my daughter off at a friend's house for a pool
party. I noticed small US flags planted at the corneers of the public
and private sidewalks thorughout the neighborhood. I looked closely at
the flag in front of the friend's house: below the flag on the stick
was an advertising banner for a local mortgage company.

2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.

3. (A little late for Dominion Day (oops, according to wikipedia it is
now officially Canada Day)): on the OLN Tour de France show this
morning I noticed a Canadian flag painted in the middle of the road,
right where many of the bicycles had to ride over it.


I'm a veteran.

Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a
symbol. You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol.
Creating a special case for our flag does not mean it would no longer
stand for freedom, it just means it would stand for a bit less.

Luhan

Agreed!

However I would like a LAW... burn a flag in my presence enables me a
one-time exercise of a right without penalty... one shot upside your
head with a shovel ;-)

My, how I wish Jim had enough sense to realise that you can't have laws
like that - it's just one more version of vigilante action, and sillier
than most.

I fully support Jim's right to be a really pissed-off American!!


Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

rubbish. its their first refuge. why have reasoned, rational debate when
you can simply yell "unpatriotic"

Quote:

Someone who runs around beating on people's heads with a shovel because
he doesn't approve of their take on political symbolism might not be a
scoundrel, but would look very like one.


Cheers
Terry
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Terry Given wrote:

Quote:
bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

rubbish. its their first refuge. why have reasoned, rational debate when
you can simply yell "unpatriotic"

Or make out the French as the enemy.

Graham
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<ifitwereme@hotfellows
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Just make it out of something that doesn't burn.
Quote:

Or make the smoke lethal ?:-)

We already make some flags from HEMP fibre. That's close enough to drugs
for
me! Maybe they are smoking them flags!

Meaningless crap.


You go and have your Meaningless crap old son. I hope it helps empty your
head, as its obviously full of the stuff!
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David Brown
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Flag desecration? Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On 4 Jul 2006 09:48:12 -0700, "Luhan" <luhanis@yahoo.com> wrote:

Richard Henry wrote:
A propos for July 4th:

1. Yesterday I dropped my daughter off at a friend's house for a pool
party. I noticed small US flags planted at the corneers of the public
and private sidewalks thorughout the neighborhood. I looked closely at
the flag in front of the friend's house: below the flag on the stick
was an advertising banner for a local mortgage company.

2. In a teaser for a cable TV show, I saw Jesse James (the
hotrod/motorcycle builder), while visiting troops in Iraq, autograph a
US flag wih an indelible pen.

3. (A little late for Dominion Day (oops, according to wikipedia it is
now officially Canada Day)): on the OLN Tour de France show this
morning I noticed a Canadian flag painted in the middle of the road,
right where many of the bicycles had to ride over it.

I'm a veteran.

Making flag burning illegal, makes it into an object - instead of a
symbol. You can destroy an object, nothing can destroy a symbol.
Creating a special case for our flag does not mean it would no longer
stand for freedom, it just means it would stand for a bit less.

Luhan

Agreed!

It's not often I agree with Jim on politics, but I do agree here.
Flag-burning is a peaceful but exceptionally strong expression of hate
or anger against a country - it must be allowed, just as protest marches
are allowed, in a free and democratic country. Making it into a crime
degrades the flag and flag-wavers, as well as flag-burners - people with
undesecrated flags are merely law-abiding citizens instead of expressing
their voluntary loyalty to their country.

Quote:

However I would like a LAW... burn a flag in my presence enables me a
one-time exercise of a right without penalty... one shot upside your
head with a shovel ;-)

...Jim Thompson

If it were a law, it would no longer be you exercising your freedom of
expression.
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