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Do failing LEDs flicker?
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I.F.
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

"Fred Mann" <fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:eBdtg.721$%Q6.161@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
Quote:
Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED
inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at play
here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are like
light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred



Probably lead-free soldering cracking up!
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Chris Jones
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 278

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

Fred Mann wrote:

Quote:
Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they are
old.

Chris
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Sam Goldwasser
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

"ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com> writes:

Quote:
"Fred Mann" <fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:eBdtg.721$%Q6.161@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The LED
inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at play
here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are like
light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.

Probably lead-free soldering cracking up!

Are you sure it's an LED? Neon lamps flicker when they get old.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
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Arfa Daily
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Fred Mann wrote:

Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they
are
old.

Chris

LEDs can and do go intermittent. There is a particular model of Sony mini
HiFi, which uses a LED bar to illuminate the see-thru LCD panel on the front
of the tape deck door. It is very common for these to go intermittent and
flicker. However, in this case, I am inclined to agree with the rest that
it's more likely to be a neon lamp, that's just worn out. Usually easy to
tell. If the switch just has two or four spade connectors for switching the
line power, then the internal illumination will be by neon lamp.

Arfa
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Fred Mann
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:08 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's just
what it looks like. I don't think this is an LED, but the size is similar.
Thanks again,
Fred



"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Fred Mann wrote:

Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they
are
old.

Chris
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Fred Mann
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...
Quote:
Fred Mann wrote:

Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they
are
old.

Chris

I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's just
what it looks like. I'm not sure if this is an LED, but the size is similar.
Thanks again,
Fred
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Spehro Pefhany
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:34:59 -0400, the renowned "Fred Mann"
<fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Quote:

"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...
Fred Mann wrote:

Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they
are
old.

Chris

I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's just
what it looks like. I'm not sure if this is an LED, but the size is similar.
Thanks again,
Fred

Yes, it's a neon. The tip is where they sealed off the glass tube in a
hot flame.

You can replace the neon bulb itself, but take note of the series
resistor and size of the envelope (for example):

http://www.chefung.com/neon/neon.html

If you mismatch the resistor and the neon you'll either get too little
light or shorten the lifetime.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Robert Baer
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

Fred Mann wrote:

Quote:
Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The LED
inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at play
here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are like
light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred


If it flickers, it is a neon bulb.
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Robert Baer
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

Fred Mann wrote:

Quote:
"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...

Fred Mann wrote:


Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they

are

old.

Chris


I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's just
what it looks like. I'm not sure if this is an LED, but the size is similar.
Thanks again,
Fred


Yup! NE-2 or similar.
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Fred Mann
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:r9cbb2lgi46qsd09voa6s7dm00mjms4h6h@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:34:59 -0400, the renowned "Fred Mann"
fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote:


"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...
Fred Mann wrote:

Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch.
The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else
at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs
are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they
are
old.

Chris

I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's
just
what it looks like. I'm not sure if this is an LED, but the size is
similar.
Thanks again,
Fred

Yes, it's a neon. The tip is where they sealed off the glass tube in a
hot flame.

You can replace the neon bulb itself, but take note of the series
resistor and size of the envelope (for example):

http://www.chefung.com/neon/neon.html

If you mismatch the resistor and the neon you'll either get too little
light or shorten the lifetime.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Thanks! Is my local electronics store likely to have a replacement? If so,
will the resistor be matched up with the bulb when I buy it, or do I have to
bring the original resistor in (I accidentally chopped it in half trying to
bypass it -- don't ask).
Thanks yet again!!!!!
Fred
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Ken Weitzel
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 314

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:01 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

Fred Mann wrote:
Quote:
"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:r9cbb2lgi46qsd09voa6s7dm00mjms4h6h@4ax.com...

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:34:59 -0400, the renowned "Fred Mann"
fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote:


"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...

Fred Mann wrote:


Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch.

The

LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else

at

play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs

are

like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they

are

old.

Chris

I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's

just

what it looks like. I'm not sure if this is an LED, but the size is

similar.

Thanks again,
Fred

Yes, it's a neon. The tip is where they sealed off the glass tube in a
hot flame.

You can replace the neon bulb itself, but take note of the series
resistor and size of the envelope (for example):

http://www.chefung.com/neon/neon.html

If you mismatch the resistor and the neon you'll either get too little
light or shorten the lifetime.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany



Thanks! Is my local electronics store likely to have a replacement? If so,
will the resistor be matched up with the bulb when I buy it, or do I have to
bring the original resistor in (I accidentally chopped it in half trying to
bypass it -- don't ask).
Thanks yet again!!!!!
Fred

Hi...

Someone up there likes you! :)

Be very very thankful that your attempt to bypass it failed :)

Take care.

Ken
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JANA
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 341

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

Go to your local electronics store, and ask for an NE-2. If the mains
voltage is 120 VAC, ask for a 120 kohm 1/4 Watt resistor. If the mains is
220 VAC, ask for a 220 kohm 1/4 Watt resistor.

As for the resistor, it is not very critical. For 120 VAC, you can use
anything from about 100 kohm to about 140 kohm. Double this value for 220
VAC operation. If you go higher with the resistor value, the lamp will be a
little dimmer. If you go lower, the lamp will be a little brighter. If you
go too low, its lifespan will be reduced.

You may have to buy these parts in a minimum quantity, unless the dealer has
opened packages of these parts in stock. Most distributors have a minimum
invoicing. You may have to shop around for a small quantity.

--

JANA
_____


"Fred Mann" <fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:rzitg.22312$Ud4.16752@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"Spehro Pefhany" <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in message
news:r9cbb2lgi46qsd09voa6s7dm00mjms4h6h@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:34:59 -0400, the renowned "Fred Mann"
fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote:


"Chris Jones" <lugnut808@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12basn5a8h3olcf@corp.supernews.com...
Fred Mann wrote:

Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch.
The
LED inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else
at
play here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs
are
like light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred

Are you sure it isn't a neon tube? They do sometimes flicker when they
are
old.

Chris

I took the switch apart, and the "light" may in fact be a neon tube. It
looks like a very small condom with a reservoir tip (sorry, but that's
just
what it looks like. I'm not sure if this is an LED, but the size is
similar.
Thanks again,
Fred

Yes, it's a neon. The tip is where they sealed off the glass tube in a
hot flame.

You can replace the neon bulb itself, but take note of the series
resistor and size of the envelope (for example):

http://www.chefung.com/neon/neon.html

If you mismatch the resistor and the neon you'll either get too little
light or shorten the lifetime.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Thanks! Is my local electronics store likely to have a replacement? If so,
will the resistor be matched up with the bulb when I buy it, or do I have to
bring the original resistor in (I accidentally chopped it in half trying to
bypass it -- don't ask).
Thanks yet again!!!!!
Fred
Back to top
jasen
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 204

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

On 2006-07-13, Fred Mann <fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote:


Quote:
You can replace the neon bulb itself, but take note of the series
resistor and size of the envelope (for example):

http://www.chefung.com/neon/neon.html

If you mismatch the resistor and the neon you'll either get too little
light or shorten the lifetime.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


Thanks! Is my local electronics store likely to have a replacement?

that depends on how good they are.

Quote:
If so,
will the resistor be matched up with the bulb when I buy it, or do I have to
bring the original resistor in (I accidentally chopped it in half trying to
bypass it -- don't ask).
Thanks yet again!!!!!
Fred

it may be easier (but not cheaper) to replace the whole switch with another neon illuminated
switch.

OTOH you should be able to get the data on your replacement neon so you can
pick the apropriate resistor for it and the voltage it's supplied from.


--

Bye.
Jasen
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Fred Mann
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

"JANA" <jana@ca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:4hmn5fFaaisU4@uni-berlin.de...
Quote:
Go to your local electronics store, and ask for an NE-2. If the mains
voltage is 120 VAC, ask for a 120 kohm 1/4 Watt resistor. If the mains is
220 VAC, ask for a 220 kohm 1/4 Watt resistor.

As for the resistor, it is not very critical. For 120 VAC, you can use
anything from about 100 kohm to about 140 kohm. Double this value for 220
VAC operation. If you go higher with the resistor value, the lamp will be
a
little dimmer. If you go lower, the lamp will be a little brighter. If you
go too low, its lifespan will be reduced.

You may have to buy these parts in a minimum quantity, unless the dealer
has
opened packages of these parts in stock. Most distributors have a minimum
invoicing. You may have to shop around for a small quantity.

--

JANA



Thanks all!!! I got it working.
Fred
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Chris Jones
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 278

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

JANA wrote:

Quote:
Go to your local electronics store, and ask for an NE-2. If the mains
voltage is 120 VAC, ask for a 120 kohm 1/4 Watt resistor. If the mains is
220 VAC, ask for a 220 kohm 1/4 Watt resistor.

As for the resistor, it is not very critical. For 120 VAC, you can use
anything from about 100 kohm to about 140 kohm. Double this value for 220
VAC operation. If you go higher with the resistor value, the lamp will be
a little dimmer. If you go lower, the lamp will be a little brighter. If
you go too low, its lifespan will be reduced.

You may have to buy these parts in a minimum quantity, unless the dealer
has opened packages of these parts in stock. Most distributors have a
minimum invoicing. You may have to shop around for a small quantity.


Also many 1/4W resistors are not rated for 240VAC use, but you might be able
to put two in series to get sufficient voltage rating if you can't get the
proper rating in a single resistor from your source of components.

Chris
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