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B&K E-200D signal generator - no signal
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Stanislaw Flatto
electronics forum addict


Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

Rich Grise wrote:

Quote:


Thanks! Wink After RTFM, I used the studs - in a different post, I said
that the first page of the MB instructions said, "Hold the board in
place and look through the holes. If you see threaded holes in the
chassis, use the studs. If you see slots, use the plastic standoffs."
So, I used the studs and it's now essentially a new computer. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich



It seems that everybody gets smart after making similar mistakes.

Have fun

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.
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Rich Grise
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3971

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:26:53 +0000, Ken Weitzel wrote:

Quote:
Rich Grise wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:34:16 -0400, mc wrote:

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.
The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.

Well, the latest in my continuing saga is that I bothered to RTFM on the
motherboard, and it says, in the second paragraph of chapter 1, "The
board can be mounted to the case using either studs or plastic standoffs.
Studs are recommended. To determine which your case uses, hold the board
in position, and look through the holes. If the case has threaded holes,
use studs. If the case has slots, use the plastic standoffs. The slots
allow the board to be slid into position for final mounting."

How F'ing Duh can you get? ;-)

So, I used the studs, and have a little supply of fiber washers, since
I couldn't imagine balancing one on top of a stud while I jockey
the board into position. The pads are quite substantial, so there's
no danger of a short.

When I finally fired it up, not only did it work, but it booted the
original W2K on the hard drive! I expected it to complain about the
new hardware, but all it did was report that it needed drivers, and
I just stuck in the CD that came with the MB, and I'm totally up
and running!

So, I'm going to be a lot more moderate in the future about my criticism
of Fry's - maybe they ship crap, and maybe their salesdroids are BK
rejects, but if you take it back to them, they do have at least one
tech, who will make it go. :-)

Now, I have to go back and see how much of my $40.00 I can get back
from the guy who told me the MB was hosed and it was my fault. >:-[

Hi Rich...

I think you'll find that the fiber washers were intended to go
under the screw head :)

Take care.

In the original chassis, they were actually under the studs, which

were threaded into the steel. I was wondering if they're spacers to
accommodate different length studs or a warped board or sometheing. Wink
But they certainly didn't insulate anything!

Thanks!
Rich
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Rich Grise
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3971

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:31:49 +0000, Stanislaw Flatto wrote:
Quote:
Rich Grise wrote:

So, finally, to the question: If it were up to you, would you take the
brass studs out of the old case and screw them into the new case, or
would you use the plastic standoffs? My major worry, of course, is
grounding the MB to the case.

The plastic ones will probably be easier, but if anybody is adamant
about using the brass studs, I'd be happy to read it here.

Now we are on mechanics.
The varieties of studs both have their function.
The brass or metal ones keep the board steady against movement when
inserting or removing the PS/2, USB, serial, parallel, video and audio
plugs and providing ground connections to case.
The plastic ones being flexible are used to support the board against
flexing and maybe breaking when inserting/removing memory, power, IDE,
and I/O cards.
So 2 or 3 (sometimes more) metal ones and the rest plastic.
Warning! check properly the placing of mobo against mounting plate
before starting to insert various studs. The accidental shorting to
ground is not worth the time invested on double/triple checking.
And make sure that both kinds have the same length from mounting plate.

Have fun

Thanks! Wink After RTFM, I used the studs - in a different post, I said
that the first page of the MB instructions said, "Hold the board in
place and look through the holes. If you see threaded holes in the
chassis, use the studs. If you see slots, use the plastic standoffs."
So, I used the studs and it's now essentially a new computer. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
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Stanislaw Flatto
electronics forum addict


Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 74

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

Rich Grise wrote:

Quote:

So, finally, to the question: If it were up to you, would you take the
brass studs out of the old case and screw them into the new case, or
would you use the plastic standoffs? My major worry, of course, is
grounding the MB to the case.

The plastic ones will probably be easier, but if anybody is adamant
about using the brass studs, I'd be happy to read it here.

Thanks!
Rich


Now we are on mechanics.
The varieties of studs both have their function.
The brass or metal ones keep the board steady against movement when
inserting or removing the PS/2, USB, serial, parallel, video and audio
plugs and providing ground connections to case.
The plastic ones being flexible are used to support the board against
flexing and maybe breaking when inserting/removing memory, power, IDE,
and I/O cards.
So 2 or 3 (sometimes more) metal ones and the rest plastic.
Warning! check properly the placing of mobo against mounting plate
before starting to insert various studs. The accidental shorting to
ground is not worth the time invested on double/triple checking.
And make sure that both kinds have the same length from mounting plate.

Have fun

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.
Back to top
Ken Weitzel
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 314

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

Rich Grise wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:34:16 -0400, mc wrote:

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.
The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.

Well, the latest in my continuing saga is that I bothered to RTFM on the
motherboard, and it says, in the second paragraph of chapter 1, "The
board can be mounted to the case using either studs or plastic standoffs.
Studs are recommended. To determine which your case uses, hold the board
in position, and look through the holes. If the case has threaded holes,
use studs. If the case has slots, use the plastic standoffs. The slots
allow the board to be slid into position for final mounting."

How F'ing Duh can you get? ;-)

So, I used the studs, and have a little supply of fiber washers, since
I couldn't imagine balancing one on top of a stud while I jockey
the board into position. The pads are quite substantial, so there's
no danger of a short.

When I finally fired it up, not only did it work, but it booted the
original W2K on the hard drive! I expected it to complain about the
new hardware, but all it did was report that it needed drivers, and
I just stuck in the CD that came with the MB, and I'm totally up
and running!

So, I'm going to be a lot more moderate in the future about my criticism
of Fry's - maybe they ship crap, and maybe their salesdroids are BK
rejects, but if you take it back to them, they do have at least one
tech, who will make it go. :-)

Now, I have to go back and see how much of my $40.00 I can get back
from the guy who told me the MB was hosed and it was my fault. >:-[

Hi Rich...

I think you'll find that the fiber washers were intended to go
under the screw head :)

Take care.

Ken
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Rich Grise
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3971

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:34:16 -0400, mc wrote:

Quote:
It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.

The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.

Well, the latest in my continuing saga is that I bothered to RTFM on the
motherboard, and it says, in the second paragraph of chapter 1, "The
board can be mounted to the case using either studs or plastic standoffs.
Studs are recommended. To determine which your case uses, hold the board
in position, and look through the holes. If the case has threaded holes,
use studs. If the case has slots, use the plastic standoffs. The slots
allow the board to be slid into position for final mounting."

How F'ing Duh can you get? ;-)

So, I used the studs, and have a little supply of fiber washers, since
I couldn't imagine balancing one on top of a stud while I jockey
the board into position. The pads are quite substantial, so there's
no danger of a short.

When I finally fired it up, not only did it work, but it booted the
original W2K on the hard drive! I expected it to complain about the
new hardware, but all it did was report that it needed drivers, and
I just stuck in the CD that came with the MB, and I'm totally up
and running!

So, I'm going to be a lot more moderate in the future about my criticism
of Fry's - maybe they ship crap, and maybe their salesdroids are BK
rejects, but if you take it back to them, they do have at least one
tech, who will make it go. :-)

Now, I have to go back and see how much of my $40.00 I can get back
from the guy who told me the MB was hosed and it was my fault. >:-[

Thanks,
Rich
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Dave D
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 486

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

"Rich Grise" <rich@example.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.07.20.03.41.42.989912@example.net...
Quote:
So, finally, to the question: If it were up to you, would you take the
brass studs out of the old case and screw them into the new case, or
would you use the plastic standoffs? My major worry, of course, is
grounding the MB to the case.

The plastic ones will probably be easier, but if anybody is adamant
about using the brass studs, I'd be happy to read it here.


Inspect the mounting holes on the motherboard. The ones that are surrounded
by a ring of metal/solder pad are intended to be grounding points and brass
standoffs can be used. If any of the holes are just PCB, or have PCB tracks
running near the hole, use plastic standoffs, or brass standoffs with
insulating washers if necessary. In the latter case, it doesn't hurt to use
insulating washers on the screw as well to prevent track damage on the top
of the motherboard.

I'm not sure I like the idea of using nothing but insulating standoffs-
there are surely EMI issues here.

Dave
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mc
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

Quote:
It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.

The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.
Back to top
Rich Grise
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3971

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:10:03 -0400, mc wrote:

Quote:
I usually have one or two brass studs and the rest plastic standoffs. When
you use a brass one, make sure you know what it's contacting.

Fry's occasionally has really good loss leaders on cases with power supplies
in it. The next time the Astec Sonata comes up for $35 or so, I'm going to
move my computer into one. Is that the one you saw? Is the deal going on
right now? I only get to Fry's every few weeks (50 miles away) but there's
a window of opportunity tomorrow.

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.

The MB did come with a big manual, though - it might say which pads
are OK to ground.

Just looked at outpost.com, and didn't see the item - it might be a
clearance thing. But I bet you could call them on the landline. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
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mc
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: New Motherboard installation Reply with quote

I usually have one or two brass studs and the rest plastic standoffs. When
you use a brass one, make sure you know what it's contacting.

Fry's occasionally has really good loss leaders on cases with power supplies
in it. The next time the Astec Sonata comes up for $35 or so, I'm going to
move my computer into one. Is that the one you saw? Is the deal going on
right now? I only get to Fry's every few weeks (50 miles away) but there's
a window of opportunity tomorrow.
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Michael Kennedy
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 401

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Cell Phone Information Site Reply with quote

Quote:
---
MAF Anti-Spam ID: 20060707000315U0o0MrE8


Sure looks like spam to me.. Especially after looking at the website.
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Ancient_Hacker
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: AC Circuit Problem (voltage - resistor) Reply with quote

I guess it depends on what you mean by "hot".

The general rule of thumb is, if you can hold your thumb on it for 30
seconds, it's not too hot.

Most coils these days are wound with wire insulation that can stand at
least 85C if not 105C. Your thumb isnt going to like more than 60C for
a few seconds.

You also have to consider what might happen if you under-drive the
solenoid. It might fail to pull in, then you have a problem. Also
some solenoids used on AC will actually get HOTTER if the plunger
doesnt pull in. The lack of iron will reduce the coil inductance,
which is not a good thing.
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Michael A. Terrell
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Spam & fraud Reply with quote

money maker wrote:
Quote:



Spam, ponzi sceme. Report with full headers to:
postmaster@cdpdspco.org & cc groups-abuse@google.com


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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David McDivitt
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: speaker freq response Reply with quote

Quote:
From: David McDivitt <david-del@del-nonspiritual.com
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 17:34:39 -0500
Lines: 24

From: "JANA" <jana@ca.inter.net
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:09:57 -0400
Lines: 35

You should buy a speaker with the proper frequency response that you need.
The higher the cost of the speaker, the better the response that it will
have.

As for correcting the response, it will be difficult to get something that
is not there in the first place!


I already said I bought the most expensive ones at Walmart, and they do
sound pretty good. I assumed if I paid that much I would get rid of the
tinny stuff. It's better but not gone. Besides, I have not seen any place
where one can pick and choose the frequency response for car stereo
speakers, and I would not want to spend anymore money.

I haven't had a chance to do it yet, but I'm sure a slight inductor in
series with the main speaker wire will do the trick. When done I will report
back.


Radio Shack only had 100 micro henry inductors. If I'd gone to an industrial
electronic store I could have found more. So I placed one in series with
each speaker and it worked. The tinny sound was reduced but not eliminated,
and the bass was boosted even further. I had the loudness enabled, which
seemed to do better drowning out the tinniness. When I turned off loudness,
I got real good midrange, acceptable treble, and still plenty of bass. The
treble was still turned all the way down, though. I estimate a 500 micro
henry inductor would work best, since that would allow treble at other than
minimum on the control. I may mail order some.

--
dgm
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Ross Herbert
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 429

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Do failing LEDs flicker? Reply with quote

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:13:15 -0400, "Fred Mann"
<fredmann@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello,
I have a piece of audio gear which has an illuminated power switch. The LED
inside flickers. Should I replace the LED, or is something else at play
here? I was under the impression (for no good reason) that LEDs are like
light bulbs - either they work or they don't -- no flickering.
Thanks!!
Fred


Fred, as it happens I noticed this same symptom on my pre-amp today. I
was playing a CD and noticed the green power-on LED go off and then
flicker dimly before coming on again. Since I built the pre-amp myself
about 15 years back I am confident the soldering is ok and the
resistors were all 1% Beyschlag metal film so I doubt it is due to
this component. My guess, from the dim background flickering and then
normal brightness, is that the LED is failing. I will let you know
more when I have had a good look. And yes, I have seen LED's exhibit
this symptom before.
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