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I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry.
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Robert Latest
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 304

PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:27:09 GMT,
Joerg <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote
in Msg. <xccug.173023$F_3.159440@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>

Quote:
his own firewood. Or gitten his farwood, as some would say. Ideally the
truck should be all decked out with horns, big mud flaps (you know the
kind...), monster tires and some impressive arials. And a Cummins turbo.

And a gun rack.

robert
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John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:28:05 GMT, Phat Bytestard
<phatbytestard@getinmahharddrive.org> wrote:


Quote:

I routinely work with banks of 16 SMAs inline at a spacing of just
over 1.25 times their diameter.

There are two tricks (at least two). Grind the sides down on the
open ended wrench such that it will still function, yet provide
maximal clearance (one or two mm wall thickness is typical). The
canted head angle tool makers use is essential for six sided
fastening.

The second is to take a closed end of a wrench (box end, 12 point),
cut the head of it off, and grind the resulting "ring" down for thin
wall thickness, and then cut a slot in it to gain access to an
attached cable's hex nut, and then weld the resulting piece onto the
end of a standard screwdriver (vertically) that has a hex shaft at the
top so that the torque wrench can still be applied. This yields a
fine close access tool. One can even find screw drivers that have the
same size hex drive shaft that the SMA connector uses.

Also, one should always also incorporate the use of the small
quarter inch wrench to keep the center nut from turning, thereby
keeping any and all such stresses out of any particular coax that one
happens to be using. This is important.


Kowabunga, I think I *will* use MCXs on this gadget I'm doing now.

John
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Phat Bytestard
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 22:49:07 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> Gave us:

Quote:
Hello Roy,


But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

So you're the guy that over torques all the connectors and causes
failure in the field!

11 inch pounds! That is less than a quarter turn after it bottoms.

Well, hold the tomatoes but that's the reason why I used a little, ahem,
adjustable wrench. They have a hole in back so I could pull via spring
scales and not torque them too much.

That's funny. A good, MORE accurate torque wrench isn't all that
expensive, and if one IS working with SMA, it seems hardly cost
prohibitive to have the right tool. Doing hundreds of them a day
would make the spring measurement method more than a little labor and
time intensive as well.


Sure. However, I generally do not work with SMA. The only time that
happens is when I have to repair lab equipment like in the case I mentioned.

In an analyzer such as the HP4191A you'd need a really small torque
wrench since the stuff is so close together. Often you have to take a
few rigid coaxes out just to gain access to the one you really want.

I routinely work with banks of 16 SMAs inline at a spacing of just
over 1.25 times their diameter.

There are two tricks (at least two). Grind the sides down on the
open ended wrench such that it will still function, yet provide
maximal clearance (one or two mm wall thickness is typical). The
canted head angle tool makers use is essential for six sided
fastening.

The second is to take a closed end of a wrench (box end, 12 point),
cut the head of it off, and grind the resulting "ring" down for thin
wall thickness, and then cut a slot in it to gain access to an
attached cable's hex nut, and then weld the resulting piece onto the
end of a standard screwdriver (vertically) that has a hex shaft at the
top so that the torque wrench can still be applied. This yields a
fine close access tool. One can even find screw drivers that have the
same size hex drive shaft that the SMA connector uses.

Also, one should always also incorporate the use of the small
quarter inch wrench to keep the center nut from turning, thereby
keeping any and all such stresses out of any particular coax that one
happens to be using. This is important.
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Joerg
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 3533

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

Hello Roy,

Quote:

But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

So you're the guy that over torques all the connectors and causes
failure in the field!

11 inch pounds! That is less than a quarter turn after it bottoms.

Well, hold the tomatoes but that's the reason why I used a little, ahem,
adjustable wrench. They have a hole in back so I could pull via spring
scales and not torque them too much.

That's funny. A good, MORE accurate torque wrench isn't all that
expensive, and if one IS working with SMA, it seems hardly cost
prohibitive to have the right tool. Doing hundreds of them a day
would make the spring measurement method more than a little labor and
time intensive as well.


Sure. However, I generally do not work with SMA. The only time that
happens is when I have to repair lab equipment like in the case I mentioned.

In an analyzer such as the HP4191A you'd need a really small torque
wrench since the stuff is so close together. Often you have to take a
few rigid coaxes out just to gain access to the one you really want.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:29:32 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> Gave us:

Quote:
Hello Roy,


SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, ...

But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

So you're the guy that over torques all the connectors and causes
failure in the field!

11 inch pounds! That is less than a quarter turn after it bottoms.


Well, hold the tomatoes but that's the reason why I used a little, ahem,
adjustable wrench. They have a hole in back so I could pull via spring
scales and not torque them too much.

That's funny. A good, MORE accurate torque wrench isn't all that
expensive, and if one IS working with SMA, it seems hardly cost
prohibitive to have the right tool. Doing hundreds of them a day
would make the spring measurement method more than a little labor and
time intensive as well.
Back to top
Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:28:36 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> Gave us:

Quote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:17:49 -0700, John Larkin
jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:01:35 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
roylfuchs@urfargingicehole.org> wrote:


SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, and you can't put them
very close together,

Are your products meant to be fussed with so incessantly that it is
a PITA, or is it just a PITA to develop using them because engineers
in a lab DO mate and un-mate so often <SIC>!!! (errrrr.... sick!!!)

Sick? There are some awfully cute female engineers around these days.
Mostly software engineers, of course, but great for embedded
applications, and most of them do work well close together.

Actually, I prefer to do my mating at home, and avoid frequent
un-mating because of the expense. But yeah, when you're developing a
board, or when the test folks are doing production test, all that SMA
screwing around gets tedious. I put "connector savers" on all my
sampling scope inputs, because SMA/3.5 threads will wear out if
they're used a lot or hook up with a bad mate.

John


Or is it "in-bedded" applications ?:-)

Oh, Lord, I apologize for that ;-)


He doesn't care. All that matters is what you say as you are on your
way out.
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Joerg
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 3533

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

Hello Roy,

Quote:

SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, ...

But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

So you're the guy that over torques all the connectors and causes
failure in the field!

11 inch pounds! That is less than a quarter turn after it bottoms.


Well, hold the tomatoes but that's the reason why I used a little, ahem,
adjustable wrench. They have a hole in back so I could pull via spring
scales and not torque them too much.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
Back to top
Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 13:17:49 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:01:35 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
roylfuchs@urfargingicehole.org> wrote:


SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, and you can't put them
very close together,

Are your products meant to be fussed with so incessantly that it is
a PITA, or is it just a PITA to develop using them because engineers
in a lab DO mate and un-mate so often <SIC>!!! (errrrr.... sick!!!)

Sick? There are some awfully cute female engineers around these days.
Mostly software engineers, of course, but great for embedded
applications, and most of them do work well close together.

Actually, I prefer to do my mating at home, and avoid frequent
un-mating because of the expense. But yeah, when you're developing a
board, or when the test folks are doing production test, all that SMA
screwing around gets tedious. I put "connector savers" on all my
sampling scope inputs, because SMA/3.5 threads will wear out if
they're used a lot or hook up with a bad mate.

John


Or is it "in-bedded" applications ?:-)

Oh, Lord, I apologize for that ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Joerg
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 3533

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

Hello John,

Quote:

SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, ...

But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

umm... how *big* a wrench?


Well, I have to confess I used the "SMT version" of an adjustable
wrench. Main reason was that it has a hole in the back where I could
connect a spring scale so I don't over-torque after the repairs.


Quote:
Yeah, sometimes I feel like Real Men should be out dynamiting dams or
cutting down trees or something. Then a plague of environmentalists
shows up, and it gets cold and wet for a few months, and I am content.


Oh, we do that on occasion (not the dams, of course). Man out here has
got to have a chain saw, a truck and at least sometimes cut and split
his own firewood. Or gitten his farwood, as some would say. Ideally the
truck should be all decked out with horns, big mud flaps (you know the
kind...), monster tires and some impressive arials. And a Cummins turbo.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:01:35 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
<roylfuchs@urfargingicehole.org> wrote:


Quote:
SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, and you can't put them
very close together,

Are your products meant to be fussed with so incessantly that it is
a PITA, or is it just a PITA to develop using them because engineers
in a lab DO mate and un-mate so often <SIC>!!! (errrrr.... sick!!!)

Sick? There are some awfully cute female engineers around these days.
Mostly software engineers, of course, but great for embedded
applications, and most of them do work well close together.

Actually, I prefer to do my mating at home, and avoid frequent
un-mating because of the expense. But yeah, when you're developing a
board, or when the test folks are doing production test, all that SMA
screwing around gets tedious. I put "connector savers" on all my
sampling scope inputs, because SMA/3.5 threads will wear out if
they're used a lot or hook up with a bad mate.

John
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Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:17:29 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> Gave us:

Quote:
Hello John,


SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, ...


But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

So you're the guy that over torques all the connectors and causes
failure in the field!

11 inch pounds! That is less than a quarter turn after it bottoms.
Back to top
John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:17:29 GMT, Joerg
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hello John,


SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, ...


But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

umm... how *big* a wrench?

Yeah, sometimes I feel like Real Men should be out dynamiting dams or
cutting down trees or something. Then a plague of environmentalists
shows up, and it gets cold and wet for a few months, and I am content.

John
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Roy L. Fuchs
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 25 Dec 2005
Posts: 1208

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 11:28:51 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> Gave us:

Quote:
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:57:07 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
roylfuchs@urfargingicehole.org> wrote:



SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, and you can't put them
very close together,

Are your products meant to be fussed with so incessantly that it is
a PITA, or is it just a PITA to develop using them because engineers
in a lab DO mate and un-mate so often <SIC>!!! (errrrr.... sick!!!)

Quote:
and the right-angle pcb versions are all taller
than everything else.

The semi-rigid cable and a straight connector can be hand shaped to
a bend radius that yields a lower exit height than any Right angle
connector out there... almost. A lot cheaper too!

Quote:
But below about 40 picoseconds, they are
electrically mighty fine,

mighty fine... I like that.

Quote:
virtually invisible on a 20 GHz TDR.

I really like MCXs. They snap in pretty solid, are small and rugged,
good to at least 6 GHz, and there are tons of cables cheap on ebay.

That limit keeps them out of my stuff.
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Joerg
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 3533

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

Hello John,

Quote:

SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, ...


But it did feel manly to work with a wrench when repairing the impedance
analyzer a few weeks ago. Like working on that old T-Bird (not that I
have one...).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com
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John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: I take back all the bad stuff I've ever said about EE Times. Sorry. Reply with quote

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:57:07 GMT, Roy L. Fuchs
<roylfuchs@urfargingicehole.org> wrote:



Quote:
SMA is where it's at. Positive connections, high frequency
capacity. Doesn't merely pull off. Doesn't count on some spring
tension for retention.

But they are such a pita to mate and unmate, and you can't put them
very close together, and the right-angle pcb versions are all taller
than everything else. But below about 40 picoseconds, they are
electrically mighty fine, virtually invisible on a 20 GHz TDR.

I really like MCXs. They snap in pretty solid, are small and rugged,
good to at least 6 GHz, and there are tons of cables cheap on ebay.

John
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