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Save the Lebanese Civilians
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Richard the Dreaded Liber
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 1143

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:32:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

Quote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:39:05 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:



big·ot P Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is
intolerant of those who differ.

Looks like bigotry to me !

Graham


Let's quantify that a little. Imagine a graph. X-axis is "how close
you are to me", with the origin being "self", followed by "wife" or
"kids" (I'm not sure of that order), siblings, cousins, distant
cousins, villagers, countrymen, people who share your language, and so
on. Y axis is, positive direction, how much you like them, and
negative Y is how much you hate them, all the way down to "murder on
sight."

Now consider possible shapes.

ERRRRRNT!

Much as I hate to interrupt an admirably eloquent discourse, I feel
impelled to introduce an additional dimension, so to speak - i.e.,
by the time you talked about how "close" and "far" these people
were, I was already visualizing the electron cloud, with these
people distributed throughout it - i.e., already in 3-D.

But then, when you come up with how much you love or hate them,
isn't that what attraction and repulsion are all about? Imagine
everyone is one of those Star Trek energy beings, and they
propel themselves around with magnetic fields, or gravity waves,
or even electric attraction/repulsion, since they're all piled
together, like water balloons in a bathtub, with a little mazola
oil to lube them.

BTW, this is, in a nutshell, one of the visualizations of how
Free Will is "supposed" to work, but on a different scale and
all that. :-)

Thanks!
Rich
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John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:47:09 GMT, "Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie"
<eatmyshorts@doubleclick.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:32:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:39:05 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:



big·ot P Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is
intolerant of those who differ.

Looks like bigotry to me !

Graham


Let's quantify that a little. Imagine a graph. X-axis is "how close
you are to me", with the origin being "self", followed by "wife" or
"kids" (I'm not sure of that order), siblings, cousins, distant
cousins, villagers, countrymen, people who share your language, and so
on. Y axis is, positive direction, how much you like them, and
negative Y is how much you hate them, all the way down to "murder on
sight."

Now consider possible shapes.

ERRRRRNT!


Gosh, are you OK? Did that hurt?

Quote:

Much as I hate to interrupt an admirably eloquent discourse, I feel
impelled to introduce an additional dimension, so to speak - i.e.,
by the time you talked about how "close" and "far" these people
were, I was already visualizing the electron cloud, with these
people distributed throughout it - i.e., already in 3-D.

The most "scientific" X-axis would be pure DNA similarity, since
that's quantifiable. But using that would make the questionaire
difficult to frame. Other axes are possible of course, along
geographic or cultural lines.

But I mean this as something that could be measured and graphed in a
population, and that might predict how a certain political structure
might work, or not.

John
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Rich Grise
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3971

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:01:27 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:47:09 GMT, "Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie"
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:32:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:39:05 +0100, Eeyore

big·ot P Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is
intolerant of those who differ.

Looks like bigotry to me !

Let's quantify that a little. Imagine a graph. X-axis is "how close
you are to me", with the origin being "self", followed by "wife" or
"kids" (I'm not sure of that order), siblings, cousins, distant
cousins, villagers, countrymen, people who share your language, and so
on. Y axis is, positive direction, how much you like them, and
negative Y is how much you hate them, all the way down to "murder on
sight."

Now consider possible shapes.
....
Much as I hate to interrupt an admirably eloquent discourse, I feel
impelled to introduce an additional dimension, so to speak - i.e.,
by the time you talked about how "close" and "far" these people
were, I was already visualizing the electron cloud, with these
people distributed throughout it - i.e., already in 3-D.

The most "scientific" X-axis would be pure DNA similarity, since
that's quantifiable. But using that would make the questionaire
difficult to frame. Other axes are possible of course, along
geographic or cultural lines.

But I mean this as something that could be measured and graphed in a
population, and that might predict how a certain political structure
might work, or not.


I think I'm seeing what you're saying, but I'm wondering if your're
talking about stuff like "birds of a feather flock together" and
the divisions you see all over the place between neighborhoods
and stuff that anyone can see in an overall picture, but hasn't
ever been quanitfied that I know of.

Thanks!
Rich
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John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:39:58 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:01:27 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:47:09 GMT, "Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie"
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:32:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:39:05 +0100, Eeyore

big·ot P Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is
intolerant of those who differ.

Looks like bigotry to me !

Let's quantify that a little. Imagine a graph. X-axis is "how close
you are to me", with the origin being "self", followed by "wife" or
"kids" (I'm not sure of that order), siblings, cousins, distant
cousins, villagers, countrymen, people who share your language, and so
on. Y axis is, positive direction, how much you like them, and
negative Y is how much you hate them, all the way down to "murder on
sight."

Now consider possible shapes.
...
Much as I hate to interrupt an admirably eloquent discourse, I feel
impelled to introduce an additional dimension, so to speak - i.e.,
by the time you talked about how "close" and "far" these people
were, I was already visualizing the electron cloud, with these
people distributed throughout it - i.e., already in 3-D.

The most "scientific" X-axis would be pure DNA similarity, since
that's quantifiable. But using that would make the questionaire
difficult to frame. Other axes are possible of course, along
geographic or cultural lines.

But I mean this as something that could be measured and graphed in a
population, and that might predict how a certain political structure
might work, or not.


I think I'm seeing what you're saying, but I'm wondering if your're
talking about stuff like "birds of a feather flock together" and
the divisions you see all over the place between neighborhoods
and stuff that anyone can see in an overall picture, but hasn't
ever been quanitfied that I know of.


What I'm saying is that the more tribal a society is, the harder it
will be to establish a stable regional government, and that tribalism
can be measured in a population. So a classic Western government model
may not be stable in certain other cultures; perhaps some other
structure might.

John
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

Rich Grise wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:01:27 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:47:09 GMT, "Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie"
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:32:02 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:39:05 +0100, Eeyore

big·ot P Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is
intolerant of those who differ.

Looks like bigotry to me !

Let's quantify that a little. Imagine a graph. X-axis is "how close
you are to me", with the origin being "self", followed by "wife" or
"kids" (I'm not sure of that order), siblings, cousins, distant
cousins, villagers, countrymen, people who share your language, and so
on. Y axis is, positive direction, how much you like them, and
negative Y is how much you hate them, all the way down to "murder on
sight."

Now consider possible shapes.
...
Much as I hate to interrupt an admirably eloquent discourse, I feel
impelled to introduce an additional dimension, so to speak - i.e.,
by the time you talked about how "close" and "far" these people
were, I was already visualizing the electron cloud, with these
people distributed throughout it - i.e., already in 3-D.

The most "scientific" X-axis would be pure DNA similarity, since
that's quantifiable. But using that would make the questionaire
difficult to frame. Other axes are possible of course, along
geographic or cultural lines.

But I mean this as something that could be measured and graphed in a
population, and that might predict how a certain political structure
might work, or not.


I think I'm seeing what you're saying, but I'm wondering if your're
talking about stuff like "birds of a feather flock together" and
the divisions you see all over the place between neighborhoods
and stuff that anyone can see in an overall picture, but hasn't
ever been quanitfied that I know of.

I've been following this in a kind of slightly perplexed manner.

I can't see how such an idea would work well in such a multi-cultural society as the UK
though.

Graham
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Richard The Dreaded Liber
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 28 Apr 2006
Posts: 199

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject: OT: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:46:37 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:39:58 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:01:27 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
....
But I mean this as something that could be measured and graphed in a
population, and that might predict how a certain political structure
might work, or not.

I think I'm seeing what you're saying, but I'm wondering if your're
talking about stuff like "birds of a feather flock together" and
the divisions you see all over the place between neighborhoods
and stuff that anyone can see in an overall picture, but hasn't
ever been quanitfied that I know of.

What I'm saying is that the more tribal a society is, the harder it
will be to establish a stable regional government, and that tribalism
can be measured in a population. So a classic Western government model
may not be stable in certain other cultures; perhaps some other
structure might.


Ah! Got it. Smile And if the tribals like tribalism, it's not right to
try to convert them against their will, right? >:->

Cheers!
Rich
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Jim Yanik
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 635

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:aektb29nn0l8b0ti8a60ua87fplcuf84jf@4ax.com:

Quote:
On 19 Jul 2006 23:11:44 GMT, the renowned Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
news:fatsb2dp13to7qdkjcqpctftqqq2slfj9b@4ax.com:


The Lebanese government does not control Lebanon, Hezbollah does.
Thus there are no Lebanese, only Hezbollians ;-)

...Jim Thompson

True;if the Lebanese people TRULY wanted Hezbollah gone,they could
snipe at them,refuse to supply food for them,rat them out to
authorities(or Israel;tell where they are hiding,their supply
dumps,bunkers,etc.).

In actual practice,Hezbollah IS the south Lebanon government.
So,warfare upon them is legitimate.

Now you're thinking like a terrorist!


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


???

It would be very interesting to see you explain that in writing.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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I.F.
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:4kdtb2ho2mv7cf0av3n3qsfq0h8s4vptss@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:34:41 GMT, "ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com
wrote:

[snip]

The Jews also have this strange habit of starting businesses and creating
jobs!


Careful there. That statement rattles leftist weenies almost as bad
as pointing out that Republicans also create jobs ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Is there anyone in your field of view who isn't a leftist weenie?!!
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I.F.
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:hpdtb2h3nkom7b6knbeliu3l30ctubvpa4@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:30:31 GMT, "ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com
wrote:


"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:44BD002C.247388F@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com...
[snip]

The Scots are excellent engineers btw. The Germans and French are pretty
damn good too.

French good engineers?! - Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!


Right on !!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Anyone remember the name of the nuclear power station the Frogs built on a
flood plain?!!!
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

ian field wrote:

Quote:
"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:4kdtb2ho2mv7cf0av3n3qsfq0h8s4vptss@4ax.com...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:34:41 GMT, "ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com
wrote:

[snip]

The Jews also have this strange habit of starting businesses and creating
jobs!


Careful there. That statement rattles leftist weenies almost as bad
as pointing out that Republicans also create jobs ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Is there anyone in your field of view who isn't a leftist weenie?!!

It seems that M Terrell would qualify as a non-weenie .

Graham
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:47:04 GMT, "ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

Quote:

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:4kdtb2ho2mv7cf0av3n3qsfq0h8s4vptss@4ax.com...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:34:41 GMT, "ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com
wrote:

[snip]

The Jews also have this strange habit of starting businesses and creating
jobs!


Careful there. That statement rattles leftist weenies almost as bad
as pointing out that Republicans also create jobs ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Is there anyone in your field of view who isn't a leftist weenie?!!


I wasn't calling you a leftist weenie.

John Larkin for one.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:59:40 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:


ian field wrote:

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
message news:4kdtb2ho2mv7cf0av3n3qsfq0h8s4vptss@4ax.com...
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:34:41 GMT, "ian field" <dai.ode@ntlworld.com
wrote:

[snip]

The Jews also have this strange habit of starting businesses and creating
jobs!


Careful there. That statement rattles leftist weenies almost as bad
as pointing out that Republicans also create jobs ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Is there anyone in your field of view who isn't a leftist weenie?!!

It seems that M Terrell would qualify as a non-weenie .

Graham


Yep!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
Spehro Pefhany
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

On 20 Jul 2006 16:29:59 GMT, the renowned Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

Quote:
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:aektb29nn0l8b0ti8a60ua87fplcuf84jf@4ax.com:

On 19 Jul 2006 23:11:44 GMT, the renowned Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
news:fatsb2dp13to7qdkjcqpctftqqq2slfj9b@4ax.com:


The Lebanese government does not control Lebanon, Hezbollah does.
Thus there are no Lebanese, only Hezbollians ;-)

...Jim Thompson

True;if the Lebanese people TRULY wanted Hezbollah gone,they could
snipe at them,refuse to supply food for them,rat them out to
authorities(or Israel;tell where they are hiding,their supply
dumps,bunkers,etc.).

In actual practice,Hezbollah IS the south Lebanon government.
So,warfare upon them is legitimate.

Now you're thinking like a terrorist!

???

It would be very interesting to see you explain that in writing.

Would you not agree that bin Laden is a terrorist? Here are his
eloquent and chilling words, which involve the identical logic
(actually bin Laden's point is stronger because the US is probably
more democratic than Lebanon) as your justification for the
terrorizing and killing of several hundred Lebanese civilians (so far,
along with a couple dozen Hizbolla members and Lebanese army members)
and the destruction of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of
recently rebuilt civilian infrastructure:

------
You may then ask why we are attacking and killing civilians because
you have defined them as innocent:

• Well this argument contradicts your claim that America is the land
of freedom and democracy, where every American irrespective of gender,
color, age or intellectual ability has a vote. It is a fundamental
principle of any democracy that the people choose their leaders, and
as such, approve and are party to the actions of their elected
leaders. So ‘In the land of freedom’ each American is ‘free’ to select
their leader because they have the right to do so, and as such they
give consent to the policies their elected Government adopts. This
includes the support of Israel manifesting itself in many ways
including billions of dollars in military aid. By electing these
leaders, the American people have given their consent to the
incarceration of the Palestinian people, the demolition of Palestinian
homes and the slaughter of the children of Iraq. The American people
have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government
and even to change their Government, yet time and time again, polls
show that the American people support the policies of the elected
Government.

• The tax paid by the American people is spent against us, building
planes to bomb our homes in Afghanistan, building tanks to strike and
destroy our homes in Palestine, to finance the armies that occupy our
lands in the Arabian Gulf and the fleets surrounding Iraq. These tax
dollars are given to Israel so that it will be better equipped to
attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are Israel’s
financial source, and through the elected American leaders, this money
is spent on little else but killing our families in our lands.

• Further, the American army is part of the American people. It is
these very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight
against us.

• This is why the American people are not innocent. The American
people are active members in all these crimes.
-----
Reference: _Imperial Hubris_ by Michael Scheuer (CIA expert on bin
Laden)

BTW, Scheuer believes that a much more aggressive (and much more
focused) effort is called for to get rid of (kill) them, rather than
chasing other unrelated and counterproductive geopolitical goals in
the region (such as the Iraq war).


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Charlie Edmondson
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 251

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

Eeyore wrote:

Quote:

Jim Thompson wrote:


On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:38:41 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


And if I were to choose a religion, though an unlikely event, it would
be Judaism... I like their intense family values.

I expect you're also keen on the fire and brimstone bits too ! ;~)

Graham

"fire and brimstone" are BAPTIST "values" ;-)

...Jim Thompson


Old Testament. I'm well aware of the distinctions.

The Moslems have a similar problem with their texts btw.

Graham


No, the correct term is "Eye for an Eye" for Judaism...

Charlie
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Jim Yanik
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 635

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Save the Lebanese Civilians Reply with quote

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:i0fvb212kvhe7bd2t1dmedk75sqsrucrb1@4ax.com:

Quote:
On 20 Jul 2006 16:29:59 GMT, the renowned Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote in
news:aektb29nn0l8b0ti8a60ua87fplcuf84jf@4ax.com:

On 19 Jul 2006 23:11:44 GMT, the renowned Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov
wrote:

Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@My-Web-Site.com> wrote in
news:fatsb2dp13to7qdkjcqpctftqqq2slfj9b@4ax.com:


The Lebanese government does not control Lebanon, Hezbollah does.
Thus there are no Lebanese, only Hezbollians ;-)

...Jim Thompson

True;if the Lebanese people TRULY wanted Hezbollah gone,they could
snipe at them,refuse to supply food for them,rat them out to
authorities(or Israel;tell where they are hiding,their supply
dumps,bunkers,etc.).

In actual practice,Hezbollah IS the south Lebanon government.
So,warfare upon them is legitimate.

Now you're thinking like a terrorist!

???

It would be very interesting to see you explain that in writing.

Would you not agree that bin Laden is a terrorist? Here are his
eloquent and chilling words, which involve the identical logic
(actually bin Laden's point is stronger because the US is probably
more democratic than Lebanon) as your justification for the
terrorizing and killing of several hundred Lebanese civilians (so far,
along with a couple dozen Hizbolla members and Lebanese army members)
and the destruction of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of
recently rebuilt civilian infrastructure:


Except that roads and bridges are also military targets,to deny the enemy
mobility and resupply.Exactly why Israel targeted them. Israel is also
choosing military targets,not simply shooting rockets at
civilians.Hezbollah deliberately uses their own civilians as human
shields;they might as well go into combat with babies strapped to their
chests.Lebanese civilians are -collateral- casulaties,while Israeli
citizens are deliberately targeted.
But you fool liberals think the two are somehow equal.

Quote:

------
You may then ask why we are attacking and killing civilians because
you have defined them as innocent:

• Well this argument contradicts your claim that America is the land
of freedom and democracy, where every American irrespective of gender,
color, age or intellectual ability has a vote. It is a fundamental
principle of any democracy that the people choose their leaders, and
as such, approve and are party to the actions of their elected
leaders. So ‘In the land of freedom’ each American is ‘free’ to select
their leader because they have the right to do so, and as such they
give consent to the policies their elected Government adopts. This
includes the support of Israel manifesting itself in many ways
including billions of dollars in military aid. By electing these
leaders, the American people have given their consent to the
incarceration of the Palestinian people, the demolition of Palestinian
homes and the slaughter of the children of Iraq. The American people
have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government
and even to change their Government, yet time and time again, polls
show that the American people support the policies of the elected
Government.

• The tax paid by the American people is spent against us, building
planes to bomb our homes in Afghanistan, building tanks to strike and
destroy our homes in Palestine, to finance the armies that occupy our
lands in the Arabian Gulf and the fleets surrounding Iraq. These tax
dollars are given to Israel so that it will be better equipped to
attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are Israel’s
financial source, and through the elected American leaders, this money
is spent on little else but killing our families in our lands.

• Further, the American army is part of the American people. It is
these very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight
against us.

• This is why the American people are not innocent. The American
people are active members in all these crimes.
-----
Reference: _Imperial Hubris_ by Michael Scheuer (CIA expert on bin
Laden)

BTW, Scheuer believes that a much more aggressive (and much more
focused) effort is called for to get rid of (kill) them, rather than
chasing other unrelated and counterproductive geopolitical goals in
the region (such as the Iraq war).


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


You are insane.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
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