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What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser?
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Steve
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <44BC56F3.70B121B0@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:

Because electrons aren't really free. They cost lots of money.

The electrons are free. But the laser is really expensive.

--
Steve
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mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <e9ibdc$8ss_005@s1003.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>, jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
Quote:
In article <rH_ug.13$25.190@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <kh5uo3-hg6.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
writes:
In sci.physics mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <6h1uo3-2hp.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
writes:
In sci.physics Radium <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium

You mean other than the size of stuff like vacuum pumps, high voltage
power supplies, and shielding required to generate a relativistic
electron beam?

Well, to begin with, the size of the accelerator required.

Not to pick nits, but doesn't that require vacuum pumps, high voltage
power supplies, and shielding?

Sure. As well as RF cavities, power supplies for those, Steering
magnets (again with power supplies), quadrupoles, sextapoles and all
sorts of poles (again...), and then we get to the undulators.

Well, yeah, there is that pesky enclosure containing the electrons.

Yes, that too:-) And the operators' room with the coffee machine.

How many babysitters are needed?

Not too many. One for routine stuff but you'll always keeps at least

two, in case things get "less routine".

Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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Pat B.
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium

what a spaz, and i mean no disrespect to mentally handicaped people.
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Pat B.
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium

the size of the pen.
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Don Bruder
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <44BD060C.BFD9E40D@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Radium wrote:

Is it possible to make vacuum pumps, high-voltage power supplies,
shielding and accelerators that are small enough to fit in a pen-sized
object?

Is it possible to stick an inspection scope up your nose to see if you skull
is as
empty as your posts suggest ?

Graham


ROTFL!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself, bud :)

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
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Don Bruder
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <1153242276.450400.211790@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>,
"Pat B." <laserman@bendcable.com> wrote:

Quote:
Radium wrote:
Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium

what a spaz, and i mean no disrespect to mentally handicaped people.


Funny you should say that. Another group I read has a poster signing
himself "spaz", and boy, does it fit...

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
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Louis Boyd
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

Pat B. wrote:
Quote:
Radium wrote:

Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium


the size of the pen.

Radium's "pointer" is probably not a pen. It might be a dog but more

likely it's a Volkswagen. The Volkswagen Pointer is fairly common
outside of the US. It would have pleny of room inside for a small
free-electron laser. The engine could even power the laser.

http://www.volkswagen.ru/showrooms/pointer

The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped Pointers is
the very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd agree it
would be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.
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Pat B.
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

Louis Boyd wrote:
Quote:
Pat B. wrote:
Radium wrote:

Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium


the size of the pen.

Radium's "pointer" is probably not a pen. It might be a dog but more
likely it's a Volkswagen. The Volkswagen Pointer is fairly common
outside of the US. It would have pleny of room inside for a small
free-electron laser. The engine could even power the laser.

http://www.volkswagen.ru/showrooms/pointer

The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped Pointers is
the very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd agree it
would be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.

True, however I CAN fit a pen in a dog Smile
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Bob Myers
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

"Louis Boyd" <boyd@apt0.sao.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:e9jff0$klt$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...

Quote:
The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped Pointers is the
very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd agree it would
be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.

And remember the immortal words of Groucho Marx: outside
of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, of course,
it's too dark to read.

Bob M.
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Don Bruder
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <1153256217.939112.257800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Pat B." <laserman@bendcable.com> wrote:

Quote:
Louis Boyd wrote:
Pat B. wrote:
Radium wrote:

Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium


the size of the pen.

Radium's "pointer" is probably not a pen. It might be a dog but more
likely it's a Volkswagen. The Volkswagen Pointer is fairly common
outside of the US. It would have pleny of room inside for a small
free-electron laser. The engine could even power the laser.

http://www.volkswagen.ru/showrooms/pointer

The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped Pointers is
the very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd agree it
would be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.

True, however I CAN fit a pen in a dog :)


Just watch out... Dogs have been known to react violently to the
procedure... :)

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
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Lord Garth
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

"Don Bruder" <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44bd5660$0$96203$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Quote:
In article <1153256217.939112.257800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<snip>

Quote:
The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped Pointers is
the very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd agree it
would be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.

True, however I CAN fit a pen in a dog :)


Just watch out... Dogs have been known to react violently to the
procedure... :)


Violent reaction can occur from putting the dog in his pen as well!
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Don Bruder
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 190

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <gNcvg.132122$dW3.81277@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
"Lord Garth" <LGarth@Tantalus.net> wrote:

Quote:
"Don Bruder" <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44bd5660$0$96203$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
In article <1153256217.939112.257800@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

snip

The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped Pointers is
the very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd agree it
would be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.

True, however I CAN fit a pen in a dog :)


Just watch out... Dogs have been known to react violently to the
procedure... :)


Violent reaction can occur from putting the dog in his pen as well!




Aye, this is true...

--
Don Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info
Back to top
Lord Garth
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 363

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: OT Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

"Don Bruder" <dakidd@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:44bd5fc6$0$96203$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
Quote:
In article <gNcvg.132122$dW3.81277@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
"Lord Garth" <LGarth@Tantalus.net> wrote:

snip

The main reason you don't see free-electron laser equipped
Pointers is
the very limited market, not a technological limitation. I'd
agree it
would be beyond the state of the art to fit one in a pen or a dog.

True, however I CAN fit a pen in a dog :)


Just watch out... Dogs have been known to react violently to the
procedure... :)


Violent reaction can occur from putting the dog in his pen as well!

I've enjoyed teaching my dogs hand signals...it amazes people to see the dog
obey silent commands. My min pen will return her bedding to her cage
with a simple point, first to the bedding then to the cage.

Her sign to go to bed is to place my hands together horizontally and bring
them
to the side of my head.
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Tom M
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

<mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:de8vg.14$25.430@news.uchicago.edu...
Quote:
In article <e9ibdc$8ss_005@s1003.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com>,
jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
In article <rH_ug.13$25.190@news.uchicago.edu>,
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <kh5uo3-hg6.ln1@mail.specsol.com>, jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
writes:
In sci.physics mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <6h1uo3-2hp.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
writes:
In sci.physics Radium <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
Hi:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Thanks,

Radium

You mean other than the size of stuff like vacuum pumps, high voltage
power supplies, and shielding required to generate a relativistic
electron beam?

Well, to begin with, the size of the accelerator required.

Not to pick nits, but doesn't that require vacuum pumps, high voltage
power supplies, and shielding?

Sure. As well as RF cavities, power supplies for those, Steering
magnets (again with power supplies), quadrupoles, sextapoles and all
sorts of poles (again...), and then we get to the undulators.

Well, yeah, there is that pesky enclosure containing the electrons.

Yes, that too:-) And the operators' room with the coffee machine.

How many babysitters are needed?

Not too many. One for routine stuff but you'll always keeps at least
two, in case things get "less routine".

Don't forget the Federal Office of Free Electron Laser regulation. That'll

take some space.

T
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mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: What are the obstacles to building a pen-sized free-electron laser? Reply with quote

In article <m74vg.5762$Oh1.3988@news01.roc.ny>, "C what I mean" <no spam@frontiernet.net> writes:
Quote:

All laser pointers in the market use diode-lasers. What makes it so
difficult to make a pointer-sized free-electron laser?


Finding pointer-sized free-electrons!

English Pointer, or German shorthaired pointer?


Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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