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High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages?
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jasen
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 204

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

On 2006-07-20, Radium <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers?

It'd be much more resistant to electrostatic damage, but at one microwatt
probably not very fast.

Quote:
In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.

so low that thermal expansion changing its capacitance would cause problems.

Bye.
Jasen
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redbelly
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 29 May 2005
Posts: 210

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Quote:
John Popelish wrote:

. . . In
other words, all 1 million gates could change state once every 32 years.

And people think it takes a long time for Windows to boot up now!

That's the perfect computer for this troll. It would take a few
millennium for it to boot.

Who knows, maybe that Skybuck guy could keep busy trying to invent such
a machine ...

Mark
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Michael A. Terrell
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Puckdropper wrote:
Quote:

"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in news:VQQvg.854
$ja5.318@news.cpqcorp.net:


"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:44BFD267.87153AEC@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com...

*trim*

Christ, you're clueless.

Well, at least he IS consistent in that...

Bob M.



He is at least posting in the correct group. It is
sci.electronics.basics, not sci.electronics.advanced.headspinning

Puckdropper


No, his messages belong in news:sci.electronics.total.bs


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Radium
electronics forum addict


Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Mark Fortune wrote:
Quote:
Radium wrote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers? In this high-volt, low-watt PC, all of the components
[motherboard, cpu, memory, video system (including the monitor), sound
system (including the speakers)] rely on the high-voltage, low-power
electricity. Speakers and monitor are purely digital and also use the
high-voltage, low-power digital electricity. Speakers do not contain
any diaphragm, instead they rely on "electrifying" the air to produce
sound. The electric current directly causes the air molecules to
vibrate and produce sound -- this makes it easy to reproduce
high-frequency sounds than using a conventional speaker.

In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.


Thanks,

Radium


Quite the opposite in fact, given that most, if not all insulators have
a breakdown voltage - IE electricity will start to flow across them once
the voltage reaches a certain level, sometimes over quite large
distances, coupled with the fact that the distance between conductors on
motherboards alone is often quite small. couple that with the fact that
the distance between conductors on high density IC's such as processors
is uncreadibly small... you will see problems.

CPU's typically run at low voltages (say 1.5v - 3v) for this reason - to
avoid electrical leakage between components on the chip.

I'm not saying it's not possible to build a computer that uses high
voltages, but it would have to be huge. The higher the voltage, the
larger the distance you need between individual components (specifically
thinking of IC's here). In a world where manufacturers are trying to
sqeeze as much into a small a space as possible...

There is also the safety issue to think of. Being a technican, I like to
work inside computers, sometimes changing floppy drives whilst the
computers still running, and fans etc. I would not be happy with working
on a computer that ran at 10,000 volts, even if it was switched off (oh
btw the capacitors would have to be huge too)

I like this idea of 'electrifying the air' to produce sound... is this a
thought process ofshot or is it something you know exists? I would be
interested to hear any theories/products that do this.

Mark

Thanks for the info. I know realize how disadvantageous this
nearly-wattless design of a PC is.
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Puckdropper
electronics forum addict


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

"Bob Myers" <nospamplease@address.invalid> wrote in news:VQQvg.854
$ja5.318@news.cpqcorp.net:

Quote:

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:44BFD267.87153AEC@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com...

*trim*

Quote:
Christ, you're clueless.

Well, at least he IS consistent in that...

Bob M.



He is at least posting in the correct group. It is
sci.electronics.basics, not sci.electronics.advanced.headspinning

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
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Mark Fortune
electronics forum addict


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Quote:
John Popelish wrote:

Radium wrote:

Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers?

(snip)


In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.

Lets reduce the complexity of that computer to a single gate, and see
how fast it could switch at that power level and voltage swing.

.000001 watt from 10,000 volts implies a supply current of no more
than 10^-10 amperes. extremely low, as you say.

Charging a 10 pF node through 10,000 volts (one logic signal
transition) with that current (from I = C*(dv/dt)) would take about
1000 seconds. Reduce that total current so that a million or so gates
could be involved in the computer, and that time per transition goes
up by a factor of a million (if they all must share the same uA). In
other words, all 1 million gates could change state once every 32 years.

And people think it takes a long time for Windows to boot up now!


That's the perfect computer for this troll. It would take a few
millennium for it to boot.


Windows millenium?
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Steve
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

I think you have have amperage and wattage confussed. probably from
confusing ohm's law.

let's say we have a cuircut that uses 10 watts, we could use a power
supply that outputs 10 volts at 1 amp (10 x 1 = 10); or 100 volts at .1
amp (100 x .1 = 10 watts); but, a power supply that output only .000001
watt wouldn't have enough power to drive one LED, let olone a computer.

Radium wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers? In this high-volt, low-watt PC, all of the components
[motherboard, cpu, memory, video system (including the monitor), sound
system (including the speakers)] rely on the high-voltage, low-power
electricity. Speakers and monitor are purely digital and also use the
high-voltage, low-power digital electricity. Speakers do not contain
any diaphragm, instead they rely on "electrifying" the air to produce
sound. The electric current directly causes the air molecules to
vibrate and produce sound -- this makes it easy to reproduce
high-frequency sounds than using a conventional speaker.

In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.


Thanks,

Radium
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Michael A. Terrell
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Eeyore wrote:
Quote:

Radium wrote:

Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts]

Christ, you're clueless.

Graham


Yes, I think we should nominate him for the "Sloman Award" with the
"Allison Endorsement".


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Bob Myers
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:44BFD267.87153AEC@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com...
Quote:


Radium wrote:

Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts]

Christ, you're clueless.

Well, at least he IS consistent in that...

Bob M.
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Michael A. Terrell
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

John Popelish wrote:
Quote:

Radium wrote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers?
(snip)

In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.

Lets reduce the complexity of that computer to a single gate, and see
how fast it could switch at that power level and voltage swing.

.000001 watt from 10,000 volts implies a supply current of no more
than 10^-10 amperes. extremely low, as you say.

Charging a 10 pF node through 10,000 volts (one logic signal
transition) with that current (from I = C*(dv/dt)) would take about
1000 seconds. Reduce that total current so that a million or so gates
could be involved in the computer, and that time per transition goes
up by a factor of a million (if they all must share the same uA). In
other words, all 1 million gates could change state once every 32 years.

And people think it takes a long time for Windows to boot up now!

That's the perfect computer for this troll. It would take a few
millennium for it to boot.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:

Quote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts]

Christ, you're clueless.

Graham
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John Popelish
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1601

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers?
(snip)


Quote:
In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.

Lets reduce the complexity of that computer to a single gate, and see
how fast it could switch at that power level and voltage swing.

..000001 watt from 10,000 volts implies a supply current of no more
than 10^-10 amperes. extremely low, as you say.

Charging a 10 pF node through 10,000 volts (one logic signal
transition) with that current (from I = C*(dv/dt)) would take about
1000 seconds. Reduce that total current so that a million or so gates
could be involved in the computer, and that time per transition goes
up by a factor of a million (if they all must share the same uA). In
other words, all 1 million gates could change state once every 32 years.

And people think it takes a long time for Windows to boot up now!
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Mark Fortune
electronics forum addict


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers? In this high-volt, low-watt PC, all of the components
[motherboard, cpu, memory, video system (including the monitor), sound
system (including the speakers)] rely on the high-voltage, low-power
electricity. Speakers and monitor are purely digital and also use the
high-voltage, low-power digital electricity. Speakers do not contain
any diaphragm, instead they rely on "electrifying" the air to produce
sound. The electric current directly causes the air molecules to
vibrate and produce sound -- this makes it easy to reproduce
high-frequency sounds than using a conventional speaker.

In this system, the voltage is high but the amperage is *extremely*
low.


Thanks,

Radium


Quite the opposite in fact, given that most, if not all insulators have
a breakdown voltage - IE electricity will start to flow across them once
the voltage reaches a certain level, sometimes over quite large
distances, coupled with the fact that the distance between conductors on
motherboards alone is often quite small. couple that with the fact that
the distance between conductors on high density IC's such as processors
is uncreadibly small... you will see problems.

CPU's typically run at low voltages (say 1.5v - 3v) for this reason - to
avoid electrical leakage between components on the chip.

I'm not saying it's not possible to build a computer that uses high
voltages, but it would have to be huge. The higher the voltage, the
larger the distance you need between individual components (specifically
thinking of IC's here). In a world where manufacturers are trying to
sqeeze as much into a small a space as possible...

There is also the safety issue to think of. Being a technican, I like to
work inside computers, sometimes changing floppy drives whilst the
computers still running, and fans etc. I would not be happy with working
on a computer that ran at 10,000 volts, even if it was switched off (oh
btw the capacitors would have to be huge too)

I like this idea of 'electrifying the air' to produce sound... is this a
thought process ofshot or is it something you know exists? I would be
interested to hear any theories/products that do this.

Mark
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Bob Myers
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

"John Popelish" <jpopelish@rica.net> wrote in message
news:66mdnZ_0d4x9WSLZnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@adelphia.com...
Quote:
Radium wrote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers?

No.

Please don't feed the trolls. Move along, now,
everyone, there's nothing to see here....


Bob M.
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John Popelish
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 1601

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: High-voltage low-wattage computer -- any advantages? Reply with quote

Radium wrote:
Quote:
Hi:

Would a computer designed to use high-voltage [around 10,000 volts],
low-wattage [around 0.000001 watt] have any advantage over conventional
computers?

No.
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