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Blue sky thinking
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:06:23 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Where on earth do you get 15% from ?

Graham

Geeez! I can understand your aggravation... it's only 11% ;-)

...Jim Thompson

It's not even that high in France for heaven's sake !

5% here. Less than the USA according to http://www.wi-countries.com/cy/2433

Graham
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Michael A. Terrell
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2291

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
Quote:

amdx wrote:
"PeteS" <PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1153421542.639400.283610@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/columnists/story/0,,1824906,00.html

Interesting take

I've lived and worked in both Europe and the USA [just about 50:50]
over the last (almost) 40 years, and certainly much of what he says
makes sense.

Let battle be joined ;)

Look what those hard working Americans have achieved in
their short time (230 years) vs. some more than one thousand
year old societies.
While at the same time pulling much of the world up.

When it comes to pulling much of the workd up, America and Europe
actually share a common culture - the all-American Abrahams tank is a
pretty representative example of American leadership, with its German
gun and British armour.

Now if you could only bring yourselves to adopt one of the more
advanced European electoral systems, even just the British rules on
election expenditure ...

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen


If you could just bring yourself to mind your own damn business you
might have time to find a job.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:23:03 +0100, Eeyore
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:06:23 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Where on earth do you get 15% from ?

Graham

Geeez! I can understand your aggravation... it's only 11% ;-)

...Jim Thompson

It's not even that high in France for heaven's sake !

5% here. Less than the USA according to http://www.wi-countries.com/cy/2433

Graham

You really need to stop believing your own propaganda...

MONTH....LABOR FORCE....EMPLOYED....UNEMPLOYED..UNEMP RATE/SA RATE*

May 150,696,000 144,041,000 6,655,000 4.4% 4.6%

LAST 12 MONTH AVG...
150,134,083 142,842,417 7,291,667 4.9% 4.9%

* S.A. -- seasonally adjusted.

France, Bwahahahahahaha....

France's generous jobless benefits, about three times those of the US
and Britain, help explain its 10.1 per cent unemployment rate double
the rates in those countries.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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The Chimp
electronics forum addict


Joined: 15 May 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:52:22 -0700, PeteS wrote:

Quote:
The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/columnists/story/0,,1824906,00.html

Interesting take

I've lived and worked in both Europe and the USA [just about 50:50]
over the last (almost) 40 years, and certainly much of what he says
makes sense.

Let battle be joined ;)


Heh - Europeans are human beings, But Americans are human doings. Wink
--
Cheers!
Rich^H^H^H^HBoBo
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gfretwell@aol.com
electronics forum addict


Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:44 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 17:21:23 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:
Could you please elaborate? How does America need saving? It seems to
me that Europe is facing a demographic and employment brick-wall
across the road. The USA is doing fine

That's a guy who never really looked at the Social Security reports.
Our brick wall is just a few years farther down the road than the
Europeans. We have let our polititians write checks our kids can't
cash in the name of votes. Too bad the kids don't vote.
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Paul Hovnanian P.E.
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 583

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:

On 20 Jul 2006 11:52:22 -0700, "PeteS" <PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com
wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/columnists/story/0,,1824906,00.html

Interesting take

I've lived and worked in both Europe and the USA [just about 50:50]
over the last (almost) 40 years, and certainly much of what he says
makes sense.

Let battle be joined ;)

Cheers

PeteS

Some of us are smart enough to choose a job that is continuously fun.
Looks like Europeons don't enjoy their jobs.

Perhaps they expect a wider range of experiences in their life. If you
are happy doing one thing, fine. But there aren't that many jobs which
require climbing a few mountains, sailing around the Mediterranean (or
Caribbean), stopping by the occasional art museum, opera, symphony, etc.

One of the principles closely associated with the "Protestant Work
Ethic" seems to be that of foregoing the pleasures of life. Work hard
and you will receive your reward in the next life*. Sounds a lot like
"the check is in the mail".


*In this "next life", are they going to have periodic field trips to
Amsterdam's red light district? If not, I've got to get some now.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
(Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.)
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:56 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:06:23 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:



John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Where on earth do you get 15% from ?

Graham

Geeez! I can understand your aggravation... it's only 11% ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Some Unemployment figures from http://www.wi-countries.com/

Latvia 8.7
Lithuania 10.5
Estonia 9.9
Finland 9.2
Sweden 4.8
Norway * 4.5
Poland 19.3
Germany 8.9
Denmark 5.5
Netherlands 3.7
Belgium 8.2
France 9.6
Spain 11.4
Portugal 6.4
Italy 8.9
Greece 9.3
Luxembourg 3.8
Liechtenstein * 1.3
Switzerland * 3.9
Austria 4.5
Hungary 5.9
Slovakia 17.6
Czech Republic 8.3
Slovenia 11.3
Malta 5.6
Cyprus 3.4
Eire / Ireland 4.8
UK 5

Monaco * 3.1
Croatia * 21.9
Romania * 15
Macedonia * 37
Montenegro * 40

Non EU *

You can see that the former Eastern Bloc and Yugoslavian countries are still
struggling to improve but of the EU countries only Poland and Slovakia come
anywhere near John's laughable 15% figure.

Weenie liberal Netherlands turns out to have one of the lowest rates of
unemployment too as does ultra-liberal Sweden !
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:23:03 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:06:23 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Where on earth do you get 15% from ?

Graham

Geeez! I can understand your aggravation... it's only 11% ;-)

...Jim Thompson

It's not even that high in France for heaven's sake !

5% here. Less than the USA according to http://www.wi-countries.com/cy/2433

Graham

You really need to stop believing your own propaganda...

It's not mine.

Graham
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Paul Hovnanian P.E.
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 583

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

John Larkin wrote:
Quote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Land of the suckers, home of the foolhardy.

God save America, it doesn't seem to be in a state to save itself.

Could you please elaborate? How does America need saving? It seems to
me that Europe is facing a demographic and employment brick-wall
across the road. The USA is doing fine. Well, maybe we could use a
little more exercize and a bit less pizza, but still doing fine,
overall.

The USA is facing a similar wall. Factor out the immigrants (legal and
otherwise) and we're getting pretty old. That's what the whole panic
over social security and the baby boomers hitting retirement is about.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Time's fun when you're having flies. -- Kermit the Frog
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

"Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:

Quote:
John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Land of the suckers, home of the foolhardy.

God save America, it doesn't seem to be in a state to save itself.

Could you please elaborate? How does America need saving? It seems to
me that Europe is facing a demographic and employment brick-wall
across the road. The USA is doing fine. Well, maybe we could use a
little more exercize and a bit less pizza, but still doing fine,
overall.

The USA is facing a similar wall. Factor out the immigrants (legal and
otherwise) and we're getting pretty old. That's what the whole panic
over social security and the baby boomers hitting retirement is about.

Not to mention the national debt ! Nothing left to pay for it with. Talk about
fiddling while Rome burns ( or should that be Washington ? )

Graham
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 18:51:13 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

Quote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 11:52:22 -0700, "PeteS" <PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com
wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/columnists/story/0,,1824906,00.html

Interesting take

I've lived and worked in both Europe and the USA [just about 50:50]
over the last (almost) 40 years, and certainly much of what he says
makes sense.

Let battle be joined ;)

Cheers

PeteS

Some of us are smart enough to choose a job that is continuously fun.
Looks like Europeons don't enjoy their jobs.

Perhaps they expect a wider range of experiences in their life. If you
are happy doing one thing, fine. But there aren't that many jobs which
require climbing a few mountains, sailing around the Mediterranean (or
Caribbean), stopping by the occasional art museum, opera, symphony, etc.

One of the principles closely associated with the "Protestant Work
Ethic" seems to be that of foregoing the pleasures of life. Work hard
and you will receive your reward in the next life*. Sounds a lot like
"the check is in the mail".


*In this "next life", are they going to have periodic field trips to
Amsterdam's red light district? If not, I've got to get some now.


Poor baby! I'm getting almost more than I can handle ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:04:56 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

Quote:
John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Land of the suckers, home of the foolhardy.

God save America, it doesn't seem to be in a state to save itself.

Could you please elaborate? How does America need saving? It seems to
me that Europe is facing a demographic and employment brick-wall
across the road. The USA is doing fine. Well, maybe we could use a
little more exercize and a bit less pizza, but still doing fine,
overall.

The USA is facing a similar wall. Factor out the immigrants (legal and
otherwise) and we're getting pretty old. That's what the whole panic
over social security and the baby boomers hitting retirement is about.

I've got mine, too bad about yours ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:23:03 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:06:23 +0100, Eeyore
rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

On 20 Jul 2006 16:17:56 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

Europeans actually get more of a break than he indicates. It's called
unemployment. 15% unemployment is, on average, the same as getting an
additional 8 weeks off every year.

Where on earth do you get 15% from ?

Graham

Geeez! I can understand your aggravation... it's only 11% ;-)

...Jim Thompson

It's not even that high in France for heaven's sake !

5% here. Less than the USA according to http://www.wi-countries.com/cy/2433

Graham

You really need to stop believing your own propaganda...

MONTH....LABOR FORCE....EMPLOYED....UNEMPLOYED..UNEMP RATE/SA RATE*

May 150,696,000 144,041,000 6,655,000 4.4% 4.6%

LAST 12 MONTH AVG...
150,134,083 142,842,417 7,291,667 4.9% 4.9%

* S.A. -- seasonally adjusted.

I just checked cia.gov.

UK 4.7%
US 5.1%

( both figures for 2005 )

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it !

Graham
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Bill Sloman
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 1080

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

Wes Stewart wrote:
Quote:
On 20 Jul 2006 16:15:16 -0700, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:


amdx wrote:
"PeteS" <PeterSmith1954@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1153421542.639400.283610@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
The American work ethic may be admirable enough, but if they took a
break every now and then, argues Paul Harris, they might learn a bit
about the rest of the world

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/columnists/story/0,,1824906,00.html

Interesting take

I've lived and worked in both Europe and the USA [just about 50:50]
over the last (almost) 40 years, and certainly much of what he says
makes sense.

Let battle be joined ;)

Look what those hard working Americans have achieved in
their short time (230 years) vs. some more than one thousand
year old societies.
While at the same time pulling much of the world up.

When it comes to pulling much of the workd up, America and Europe
actually share a common culture - the all-American Abrahams tank is a
pretty representative example of American leadership, with its German
gun and British armour.


Many of our weapons systems use foreign parts, usually due to some
offset purchase agreement. "I'll buy your AMRAAM but you have to use
our widget" (and in the case of many customers, "loan me the money to
buy it from you.")


Now if you could only bring yourselves to adopt one of the more
advanced European electoral systems, even just the British rules on
election expenditure ...

What ever do you mean? We last elected King George the Junior.

If you call it an election - it was more a competition between
teleivision advertising budgets, with Karl Rove spendig a mint on
subsidising fake veterans organisations to lie about his opponents
service record in expensive "independent" TV ads, while sandbagging TV
reporters looking into Dubbya's non-service record with forged copies
of real documents - brilliant stuff, but ever so slightly dishonest.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
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Eeyore
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 642

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: Blue sky thinking Reply with quote

bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:

Quote:
Wes Stewart wrote:

What ever do you mean? We last elected King George the Junior.

If you call it an election - it was more a competition between
teleivision advertising budgets, with Karl Rove spendig a mint on
subsidising fake veterans organisations to lie about his opponents
service record in expensive "independent" TV ads, while sandbagging TV
reporters looking into Dubbya's non-service record with forged copies
of real documents - brilliant stuff, but ever so slightly dishonest.

I notice that Jim didn't respond to my post pointing out that the former leader
of the 'weenie' UK Liberal Democrats was once a UK special forces member who
served with distinction.

OTOH Dubya spent most of his time 'bunking off' ( from what's effectively a
reservist force ) as far as I can tell.

Graham
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