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SPICE on entered schamatic(s)
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Spehro Pefhany
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Exportability of EDA industry from North America? Reply with quote

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 09:32:11 +0100, the renowned Svenn Are Bjerkem
<svenn.are@bjerkem.de> wrote:

Quote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Do you know that for a fact? A while ago I was talking to some
developers who worked with their company's "European" team on a large
software project- in St. Petersburg Russia.

That part of Russia belongs to the old definition of Europe, and most of
them wants to join the European Union, because in the European Union it
is forbidden to discriminate work.

I think it is more a question what the salary is compared to level and
quality of education. Many of the former east-block countries have
exellent engineers and they are not so expencive as the western-european
engineers.

Yes, I believe that Western Russia (and Western Turkey, for that
matter) is European in culture. In this case, there was a deliberate
attempt to make it look like the work was done in Germany without
actually lying. Kind of like saying "North American" and giving a
North Carolina US address, but doing the bulk of the work in Cuba or
Honduras.

Quote:
It is such a pity that most of the politicians who put up the legal
framework for globalization never had to face competition on uneven levels

I imagine that they are indirectly profiting from it.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: CircuitMaker or Protel Reply with quote

Andrew,

Thank you. I would like to email you directly about CM/DXP, providing
you wold permit me.

If so, please send your email addres to me.

Thank you.

Ivan








On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:53:27 +1100, Andrew Tweddle
<sarason_not_me@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

Quote:
ivanzr1@aol.com wrote:

Hello,

I realize Altium produces both, but can Gerber files be produced for a
moderate sized (50 component) double sided board requiring SMT and no
VLSI in either, with the same end results?

In otherwords, is Protel DXP overkill or necessary to achieve desired
plot files for manufacture?

Ivan
DXP has a rather nice flood fill, it also has a nice rip up and relay
function,neither of which IIRC isn't in Circuitmaker for smaller size
projects like yours, other than that it will make little difference to
your design.

Andrew
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Brad Velander
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Buyer beware! Re: Protel DXP2004 & 99SE license Reply with quote

Greg,
You should be able find the EULA through the Help/About
menus. Assuming you have it installed. Or you could try a
re-install and read it when it comes up onscreen.
I don't have first hand knowledge of the DXP EULA but I sure
know plenty of my associates noticed the difference or were
informed of it by their Altium contacts when DXP came out. I am
surprised the Abd ul-Rahman hasn't shown up here or at least
informed you through the Yahoo group. He is the Protel license
transfer expert having transferred or assisted in transferring
many a number of them.

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander

"gregy" <gregyates@aussiemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:1107351075.501248.96550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Oops.

Thankyou for bringing the changes to my attention. I was
unaware that
the DXP line was no longer transferrable. Can't find the EULA
to
confirm but it does not surprise me.

Whilst this brings the product into line with the other majors
it has
in my opinion ( FWIW ) severely devalued the package as it has
changed
it from being a valuable asset to simply an expense; a
considerably
greater one at that.

Please consider the for-sale notice removed.

Greg
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Terry Given
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 868

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: OT: ...surveillance of drinking water... Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 17:41:19 +1300, Terry Given <my_name@ieee.org
wrote:


Jim Thompson wrote:

http://awwa.org/communications/journal/2005/January/ExecSumm/ES3calles0105.cfm

by Jennifer Renee (Thompson) Calles

(Number 2 daughter ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Hi Jim,

good stuff. One day I too hope to bask in the reflected glory of my
progeny. I tried to download the PDF, but its for AWWA members only. Any
chance of making the PDF available - its interesting stuff, and I for
one would like to read the entire article.

Cheers
Terry


I see if and can get and post a copy.

...Jim Thompson

Many thanks.

Cheers
Terry
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Pooh Bear
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3507

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Chuck Harris wrote:

Quote:
Misha wrote:
The question is do enought own a North American car or do we have a foreign
car.

Hmmm which North American cars are made in the third world, what % of the
rest contain a majority of forign parts?

Personally, I drive a Chev Astro?

Do we own third world produced stuff (I DO), are we willing to pay ten or
twenty dollars for those dollar store items.

Either we all must accept these developments or we must try to buy from our
companies its not a pick (Buy 3rd world, limit outsourcing )and choose.
Are we going to choose not try to save $$$$ personally, not too likely.


Most of us are guilty, we should change, but will we?

Given the opportunity, I always buy American made products. However,
I am not always given the opportunity.

It used to be possible to buy a new car that was entirely made in the USA. Now,
you cannot. It can be difficult to even find a car that has the majority of
the parts of US manufacture. Including your Chevy Astro.

The car I am currently driving is made from 51% US made parts, and was assembled
in the USA... Which of the big 3 do you think it is made by?

WRONG! It's a Subaru. The Japanese cars are frequently more made in America
than the cars made by the big 3. The small Fords are made by Mazda (owned by Ford).
The big Fords are made in Canada, Brazil, Mexico, and even partly in the US.

Every major auto manufacturer is a global player now.

Parts are sourced where they are least expensive to make or where there has been product
specific specilaisation.

A GM model could contain components from the US, various countries in Europe, Australia
or Korea for example. It might also be manufacturered in any of those countries.


Graham
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Pooh Bear
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3507

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Chuck Harris wrote:

Quote:
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

But, you see, old chap, being forced to pay $70/hour for $5 or
$10/work would really cut into the business of others. That's why, for
example, candy manufacturers have abandoned the US in droves- they
can't get sugar (their main ingredient) at anything close to world
price, yet they have to compete directly against those who can.
Erecting trade walls around a country is believed to cause really
serious problems in the long run. Cutting you loose is just the lesser
of two evils.

No doubt, but as I recall, you too are engaged in the engineering field.
What do you plan to do to steel yourself from forced retirement?

Every single field I can think of that is technical in nature is being
attacked by current trade and immigration policies.

Commonly called globalisation.

It was fun while it worked in *our* favour wasn't it ?


Quote:
I don't think plunging toilets is going to do it, because we have more
than enough resident aliens in this country that are willing to do that
for less money than your friend.

It strikes me that the only hope is for the US dollar to be come so worthless
that we cannot afford to buy $10 per hour Belarus labor, and will have to
settle for $100 per hour US labor.

Basically you're screwed.

Graahm
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Pooh Bear
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3507

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Tony Williams wrote:

Quote:
In article <la2vv0tam6h0cft6eq5fub4qksrckjod1u@4ax.com>,
Cliff <Clhuprich@aol.com> wrote:

Looks like the neocons are outsourcing Hillery's
new helicopters (Marine one fleet of 23) too.
[snip]
Is Lockheed Martin well known for their quality helicopters?
Naturally, much of it will be outsourced by the neocons .....

Reported here in the UK as an Augusta/Westland helicopter.

The twirly bits (rotors,etc) by Westland in the UK, and
the rest by Augusta in Italy.

That's Agusta actually !

http://www.whl.co.uk/eh101.html


Graham
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Pooh Bear
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3507

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Cliff wrote:

Quote:
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 08:37:52 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

The guys in Belarus either need to start charging $70/hr, or we need
to levy $60/hour in duties and tariffs.

What do you have against free trade republicans?

Looks like the neocons are outsourcing Hillery's
new helicopters (Marine one fleet of 23) too.

http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/01/31/daily4.html
"Lockheed Martin team awarded Marine One contract"
[
The overall contract, worth $6.1 billion, consists of $3.6 billion for
the fleet of helicopters and $2.5 billion for research and
development. The Lockheed team will receive $1.7 billion initially to
begin manufacturing the 23 helicopters, which are to be completed in
2009.
]

Is Lockheed Martin well known for their quality helicopters?
Naturally, much of it will be outsourced by the neocons .....

How much per at $6.1 billion/23 helicopters? Why does she need 23?

Can't she take the bus instead?

The helicopters you mention are Eurocopter ( Agusta Westland ) designed and
well proven unlike the Boeing offer which hasn't even flown.

You dislike a free market ?


Graham
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Pooh Bear
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3507

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Chuck Harris wrote:

Quote:
Ogie Ogelthorpe wrote:
Boris Olesiyuk wrote:

Our hourly rate is $10. I can send developers' resumes on your
request. We will consider any suggestions of yours but long-term
collaboration is preferable. If you are interested in this offer
please feel free to contact me obb@tut.by.

Sorry to trouble if our proposal is not interesting for you.

Yours sincerely,

Boris Olesiyuk
Team Leader
Belasoft International FV

37-88 Skariny av., Minsk, Belarus, 220003
tel: +375 17 2848804
e-mail: obb@tut.by
ICQ: 76130091


Try www.elance.com

Ogie

In the US, for $10 per hour, you can eat, or live indoors but not
both.

We need to start applying duties and tariffs to this stuff.

It annoys me that I cannot get small runs of PC boards made here in
the US as cheaply, or as easily, as I can get them made by Olimex
in Bulgaria; yet they can ship to the US duty and tax free.

It's called globalisation. It's why you can buy say a microwave oven for
around 40 bucks. You want it made in your own country ? It'll cost more.


Graham
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Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Cliff wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:36:57 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Percentages mean nothing, unless you think a poor person is a smaller
percentage of a person than a rich one.


Who gets the expensive imported toys & mansions?

Who pays taxes on the expensive toys and mansions?

Quote:


The costs to society of a
poor person are greater than those of a rich one.


Who creates the most total trash & the greatest resource
drain?

Who makes creates more jobs, the rich or the poor?
Quote:


When a rich person pays a larger dollar amount for his taxes than a poor
person, he is paying more than his fair share.


What part of "We The People" did you forget?

You lost me there.
Quote:


Most are quit happy to do so.


So you are complaining?

I haven't complained about my taxes yet.
Quote:


I would prefer to have a tax system based on consumption of capital.


"Consumption of capital"? LOL ...

Considering that you don't even have a clue what I am talking
about, yeah, LOL.

-Chuck
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Cliff
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 19:36:57 -0500, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Quote:
Cliff wrote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:17:24 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Regardless, the point I originally made is still valid, a person
earning $200K per year, and paying $54K per year in taxes is supporting
a whole lot more of the government than one who earns $30K per year.


Perhaps you'd best look at it in terms of percentages and *total*
taxes paid.
And earned vs. unearned income.
Unless you are expecting the poor to pay for your taxes ...

Percentages mean nothing, unless you think a poor person is a smaller
percentage of a person than a rich one.

Who gets the expensive imported toys & mansions?

Quote:
The costs to society of a
poor person are greater than those of a rich one.

Who creates the most total trash & the greatest resource
drain?

Quote:
When a rich person pays a larger dollar amount for his taxes than a poor
person, he is paying more than his fair share.

What part of "We The People" did you forget?

Quote:
Most are quit happy to do so.

So you are complaining?

Quote:
I would prefer to have a tax system based on consumption of capital.

"Consumption of capital"? LOL ...
--
Cliff
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Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

Cliff wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:17:24 -0500, Chuck Harris
cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Regardless, the point I originally made is still valid, a person
earning $200K per year, and paying $54K per year in taxes is supporting
a whole lot more of the government than one who earns $30K per year.


Perhaps you'd best look at it in terms of percentages and *total*
taxes paid.
And earned vs. unearned income.
Unless you are expecting the poor to pay for your taxes ...

Percentages mean nothing, unless you think a poor person is a smaller
percentage of a person than a rich one. The costs to society of a
poor person are greater than those of a rich one.

When a rich person pays a larger dollar amount for his taxes than a poor
person, he is paying more than his fair share. Most are quit happy to do so.

I would prefer to have a tax system based on consumption of capital.

-Chuck
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Cliff
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Offshore software development outsourcing Reply with quote

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:17:24 -0500, Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Quote:
Michael wrote:


You are imagining things! Clearly you have never been in this bracket.

-Chuck


according to the IRS, the MAXIMUM federal tax (no deductions of any kind)
due on an income of $200k is $53,030.

Like I said--fire your accountant



I can't fire myself. I was working from recollections from the last
time I earned that much. Back then, there was a 33% tax bracket.

Regardless, the point I originally made is still valid, a person
earning $200K per year, and paying $54K per year in taxes is supporting
a whole lot more of the government than one who earns $30K per year.

Perhaps you'd best look at it in terms of percentages and *total*
taxes paid.
And earned vs. unearned income.
Unless you are expecting the poor to pay for your taxes ...
--
Cliff
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Genome
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Posts: 789

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: ...surveillance of drinking water... Reply with quote

"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone@example.com> wrote in message
news:5s5001hpj4uapgmhvdjfrk9js1t9bnmr19@4ax.com...
Quote:

http://awwa.org/communications/journal/2005/January/ExecSumm/ES3calles0105.c

fm
Quote:

by Jennifer Renee (Thompson) Calles

(Number 2 daughter ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even crap in the food.


Yes......

It's quite naive for her to allow LH to write that 'abstract',

It's quite branedead of you to crosspost it all over usenet.

DNA
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Pig Bladder
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: OT: ...surveillance of drinking water... Reply with quote

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:01:17 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

Quote:
http://awwa.org/communications/journal/2005/January/ExecSumm/ES3calles0105.cfm

by Jennifer Renee (Thompson) Calles

(Number 2 daughter ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Yeah, I'm impressed. Thompson's rug rats discover weapons of mass
destruction ambedded in our fluoridation.

Aren't neocons smart?
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.
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