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Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS)
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lima-sz
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 06 Dec 2007
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:44 am    Post subject: 〓what is semiconductor?〓 Reply with quote

〓what is semiconductor?〓

Overview

Semiconductors are very similar to insulators. The two categories of solids differ primarily in that insulators have larger band gaps energies that electrons must acquire to be free to flow. In semiconductors at room temperature, just as in insulators, very few electrons gain enough thermal energy to leap the band gap, which is necessary for conduction. For this reason, pure semiconductors and insulators, in the absence of applied fields, have roughly similar electrical properties. The smaller bandgaps of semiconductors, however, allow for many other means besides temperature to control their electrical properties.

Semiconductors' intrinsic electrical properties are very often permanently modified by introducing impurities, in a process known as doping. Usually it is reasonable to approximate that each impurity atom adds one electron or one "hole" (a concept to be discussed later) that may flow freely. Upon the addition of a sufficiently large proportion of dopants, semiconductors conduct electricity nearly as well as metals. The junctions between regions of semiconductors that are doped with different impurities contain built-in electric fields, which are critical to semiconductor device operation.

In addition to permanent modification through doping, the electrical properties of semiconductors are often dynamically modified by applying electric fields. The ability to control conductivity in small and well-defined regions of semiconductor material, statically through doping and dynamically through the application of electric fields, has led to the development of a broad array of semiconductor devices, like transistors. Semiconductor devices with dynamically controlled conductivity are the building blocks of integrated circuits, like the microprocessor. These "active" semiconductor devices are combined with simpler passive components, such as semiconductor capacitors and resistors, to produce a variety of electronic devices.

In certain semiconductors, when electrons fall from the conduction band to the valence band (the energy levels above and below the band gap), they often emit light. This photoemission process underlies the light-emitting diode (LED) and the semiconductor laser, both of which are tremendously important commercially. Conversely, semiconductor absorption of light in photodetectors excites electrons from the valence band to the conduction band, facilitating reception of fiber optic communications, and providing the basis for energy from solar cells.

Semiconductors may be elemental materials, such as silicon, compound semiconductors such as gallium arsenide, or alloys, such as silicon germanium or aluminium gallium arsenide.


Energy-momentum dispersion
In the preceding description an important fact is ignored for the sake of simplicity: the dispersion of the energy. The reason that the energies of the states are broadened into a band is that the energy depends on the value of the wave vector, or k-vector, of the electron. The k-vector, in quantum mechanics, is the representation of the momentum of a particle. The E-k relationship varies from material to material.
The effective mass is important as it effects many of the electrical properties of the semiconductor, such as the electron or hole mobility, which in turn influences the diffusivity of the charge carriers and the electrical conductivity of the semiconductor.

Typically the effective mass of electrons and holes are different. This affects the relative performance of p-channel and n-channel IGFETs, for example (Muller & Kamins 1986:427).

The top of the valence band and the bottom of the conduction band might not occur at that same value of k. Materials with this situation, such as silicon and germanium, are known as indirect bandgap materials. Materials in which the band extrema are aligned in k, for example gallium arsenide, are called direct bandgap semiconductors. Direct gap semiconductors are particularly important in optoelectronics because they are much more efficient as light emitters than indirect gap materials.
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John Woodgate
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1546

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich the Newsgroup Wacko
<gfy@example.net> wrote (in
<pan.2005.10.14.15.35.02.848673@example.net>) about 'Driver for IGBT?
(-ve off and +ve on from CMOS)', on Fri, 14 Oct 2005:
Quote:
Remember when they invented the ICBM? Everybody thought it was the
latest and greatest, until some congressman from Alaska said, "What's
the big deal? The Eskimos have been having ICBMs for years!"

Must have been a Republican; he said 'Eskimo'. Very non-PC.(Wink
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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Rich the Newsgroup Wacko
electronics forum addict


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:43:19 +0000, Ignoramus25589 wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:46:44 -0400, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:30:50 GMT, the renowned Ignoramus25589
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:44:14 GMT, Rich, Under the Affluence <nevermind@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:23:37 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus13229

That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely alone,
there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to set me on
the straight and narrow.

They are good at explaining how you walk a tightrope. But it will be you
that is 50ft up without a safety net.

Vaguely reminiscent of sky-diving ground school - the instructor is
taking you through the training, while you're hanging on the harness,
and he says, "Malfunction!" You look at the instructor, like "WTF?"
and he says, "Don't look at me! When you're up there, there's nobody
to talk to but God, and he don't talk to skydivers, 'cause he thinks
we're crazy."

I skydived once, it ws quite a harrowing experience. Well worth $75.

Enough with the TIG-- I'd rather spend the $10K to fly a MIG.

$10K for a MIG? Heck, go FCAW, you don't need the argon. Wink
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/

Quote:
Let's come up with a way to weaponize IGBTs...

Remember when they invented the ICBM? Everybody thought it was the
latest and greatest, until some congressman from Alaska said, "What's
the big deal? The Eskimos have been having ICBMs for years!"
--
Cheers!
Rich
------
"There was a young fellow named Blaine,
And he screwed some disgusting old jane.
She was ugly and smelly
With an awful pot-belly,
But... well, they were caught in the rain."
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Robert Latest
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 304

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:43:19 GMT,
Ignoramus25589 <ignoramus25589@NOSPAM.25589.invalid> wrote
in Msg. <bXE3f.6$%T1.3@fe37.usenetserver.com>

Quote:
Let's come up with a way to weaponize IGBTs...

Your TIG project will be a good start ;-)

robert
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Spehro Pefhany
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:30:50 GMT, the renowned Ignoramus25589
<ignoramus25589@NOSPAM.25589.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:44:14 GMT, Rich, Under the Affluence <nevermind@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:23:37 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus13229
ignoramus13229@NOSPAM.13229.invalid> wrote (in
dimhnh$klc$1@pita.alt.net>) about 'Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on
from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:

That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely alone,
there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to set me on
the straight and narrow.

They are good at explaining how you walk a tightrope. But it will be you
that is 50ft up without a safety net.

Vaguely reminiscent of sky-diving ground school - the instructor is
taking you through the training, while you're hanging on the harness,
and he says, "Malfunction!" You look at the instructor, like "WTF?"
and he says, "Don't look at me! When you're up there, there's nobody
to talk to but God, and he don't talk to skydivers, 'cause he thinks
we're crazy."

I skydived once, it ws quite a harrowing experience. Well worth $75.

i

Enough with the TIG-- I'd rather spend the $10K to fly a MIG.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Ignoramus25589
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:46:44 -0400, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 02:30:50 GMT, the renowned Ignoramus25589
ignoramus25589@NOSPAM.25589.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:44:14 GMT, Rich, Under the Affluence <nevermind@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:23:37 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus13229
ignoramus13229@NOSPAM.13229.invalid> wrote (in
dimhnh$klc$1@pita.alt.net>) about 'Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on
from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:

That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely alone,
there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to set me on
the straight and narrow.

They are good at explaining how you walk a tightrope. But it will be you
that is 50ft up without a safety net.

Vaguely reminiscent of sky-diving ground school - the instructor is
taking you through the training, while you're hanging on the harness,
and he says, "Malfunction!" You look at the instructor, like "WTF?"
and he says, "Don't look at me! When you're up there, there's nobody
to talk to but God, and he don't talk to skydivers, 'cause he thinks
we're crazy."

I skydived once, it ws quite a harrowing experience. Well worth $75.

i

Enough with the TIG-- I'd rather spend the $10K to fly a MIG.

Let's come up with a way to weaponize IGBTs...

i
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Ignoramus25589
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:44:14 GMT, Rich, Under the Affluence <nevermind@example.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:23:37 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus13229
ignoramus13229@NOSPAM.13229.invalid> wrote (in
dimhnh$klc$1@pita.alt.net>) about 'Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on
from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:

That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely alone,
there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to set me on
the straight and narrow.

They are good at explaining how you walk a tightrope. But it will be you
that is 50ft up without a safety net.

Vaguely reminiscent of sky-diving ground school - the instructor is
taking you through the training, while you're hanging on the harness,
and he says, "Malfunction!" You look at the instructor, like "WTF?"
and he says, "Don't look at me! When you're up there, there's nobody
to talk to but God, and he don't talk to skydivers, 'cause he thinks
we're crazy."

I skydived once, it ws quite a harrowing experience. Well worth $75.

i
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Rich, Under the Affluence
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:23:37 +0100, John Woodgate wrote:

Quote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus13229
ignoramus13229@NOSPAM.13229.invalid> wrote (in
dimhnh$klc$1@pita.alt.net>) about 'Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on
from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:

That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely alone,
there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to set me on
the straight and narrow.

They are good at explaining how you walk a tightrope. But it will be you
that is 50ft up without a safety net.

Vaguely reminiscent of sky-diving ground school - the instructor is
taking you through the training, while you're hanging on the harness,
and he says, "Malfunction!" You look at the instructor, like "WTF?"
and he says, "Don't look at me! When you're up there, there's nobody
to talk to but God, and he don't talk to skydivers, 'cause he thinks
we're crazy."

Cheers!
Rich
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Ignoramus25589
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:28:18 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
Quote:

I'm sorry if I sound harsh or condescending here, but if you can take
a DC welder and an H-bridge and get AC to come out of it without
dramatically hacking the welder itself, then more power to you, and
I'd really like to see it. Don't forget - when you're DCEN, your
whole welder and workpiece are positive ground. When you're DCEP,
your whole welder and workpiece are negative ground. So you not
only have to run AC to the electrode, you have to have the whole
welder and workpiece going from negative to positive at your pulse
rate.

That's actually incorrect. I verified it with an ohmmeter. The work
terminal is not connected to equipment body/equipment ground.

There is infinite resistance between both work and stick terminals and
the welder.

I can flip flop the polarity all I want, without affecting the
welder's grounding in any way.

I kind of expected that to be the case, for obvious safety reasons.

i
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Glen Walpert
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 134

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On 13 Oct 2005 11:47:16 -0700, Winfield Hill
<Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote:

Quote:
Glen Walpert wrote...

Well at least he should be well under a kJ. Although I previously
guessed that his inductor was on the order of 10 uH, that was a typo,
I meant 10 mH. I see that Hobart uses the classic 6 phase double-Y
connection with interphase transformer, so the SCRs fire 6 times per
cycle or every 2.8 ms, and if the inductor is sized to allow current
decay of 5 amps at 20 volts in 2.5 msec then the inductor would be 20
volts / 2000 volt/sec = 10 mH. They might easily have designed for
less ripple but probably not less than 1 amp, for a 50 mH reactor.
So with a short circuit current of say 400 amps he only has 20 joules
to dump somewhere unless I screwed up again Smile.

20J? E = 0.5 LI^2 = 0.5 0.01 400A^2 = 800J. With 50mH, 4000J.

<blush> I hope i is paying closer attention than I am! And I hope he
wears good protective gear, sooner or later those IGBTs are bound to
try to shut off at high current.
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John Woodgate
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1546

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

I read in sci.electronics.design that Ignoramus13229
<ignoramus13229@NOSPAM.13229.invalid> wrote (in
<dimhnh$klc$1@pita.alt.net>) about 'Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on
from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:

Quote:
That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely alone,
there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to set me on
the straight and narrow.

They are good at explaining how you walk a tightrope. But it will be you
that is 50ft up without a safety net.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
If everything has been designed, a god designed evolution by natural selection.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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Rich Grise
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 3971

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:25:01 +0000, Ignoramus13229 wrote:

Quote:
On 2005-10-13, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:21:58 +0000, Ignoramus25589 wrote:

Yes, I definitely will post a schematic and all calculations (exported
to excel format for compatibility), links to all datasheets, etc etc.

Excel? "Compatibility"??????

Well, tell me the format that you want... Like I said, I will actually
be using Gnumeric under linux.


Oh, do whatever you want - I was just M$-bashing. :-)

Cheers!
Rich
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Ignoramus13229
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On 2005-10-13, John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
Quote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <rich@example.net
wrote (in <pan.2005.10.13.20.15.46.525644@example.net>) about 'Driver
for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:21:58 +0000, Ignoramus25589 wrote:

Yes, I definitely will post a schematic and all calculations (exported
to excel format for compatibility), links to all datasheets, etc etc.

Excel? "Compatibility"??????

I don't understand how you can do a schematic in Excel anyway.

I will do calculations in excel... the schematic I will draw by hand...

i
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Ignoramus13229
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On 2005-10-13, John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk> wrote:
Quote:
I read in sci.electronics.design that Rich Grise <rich@example.net
wrote (in <pan.2005.10.13.20.15.46.525644@example.net>) about 'Driver
for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS)', on Thu, 13 Oct 2005:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:21:58 +0000, Ignoramus25589 wrote:

Yes, I definitely will post a schematic and all calculations (exported
to excel format for compatibility), links to all datasheets, etc etc.

Excel? "Compatibility"??????

I don't understand how you can do a schematic in Excel anyway.

I will do calculations in excel... the schematic I will draw by hand...

i
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Ignoramus13229
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Driver for IGBT? (-ve off and +ve on from CMOS) Reply with quote

On 2005-10-13, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:09:32 +0000, Ignoramus25589 wrote:

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:40:09 GMT, Rich Grise <rich@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:22:12 +0000, Robert Latest wrote:

["Followup-To:" header set to sci.electronics.design.]
On 13 Oct 2005 02:02:05 -0700,
Winfield Hill <Winfield_member@newsguy.com> wrote
in Msg. <dil7qd01tfv@drn.newsguy.com

Listen up my ignorant sonny, your enthusiasm is noted,

yes, but isn't that some enthusiasm? Maybe I'm a poor judge because I
always lean to the pessimistic side, but I've never seen anything as
doomed as this TIG welder project. In the end, Ignoramus will be out 50
bucks for his IGBTs and a few dollars for his gate drive circuitry, but
that'll be a small price for the knowledge gained.

So... power to him!

Yeah - has anyone noticed little 'i's other thread that he just started,
"Demolishing electronic equipment"?

I think he's well on his way to demolishing some IGBTs and possibly
a welder and maybe his house. =:-O

I must say here that most things that I tried, actually worked.

Which is not to say that I have a magic hand or some such, but I am
quite willing to listen to sensible suggestions and do it the right
way, within budget, and that normally works out.

I am somewhat optimistic, I give it about 50 percent chance that my
stuff will actually work and not blow up during actual welding.

As I said, I will make this circuit in stages. I will test them on the
bench, without getting the welder involved. I will post details of my
schematic, layout and whatnot in hopes of getting some intelligent
comments, before having a chance of blowing it up.

I may have a chance of doing a little bit this weekend.

If you think that something specific that I am going to do, will not
work, I certainly would appreciate your input. If you think that my
plan is doomed to failure, and have a specific unsolvable issue in
mind, again, I will be happy to listen as it will save me valuable
time.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh or condescending here, but if you can take
a DC welder and an H-bridge and get AC to come out of it without
dramatically hacking the welder itself, then more power to you, and
I'd really like to see it. Don't forget - when you're DCEN, your
whole welder and workpiece are positive ground. When you're DCEP,
your whole welder and workpiece are negative ground.

I will have to check tonight if the welder's "work" terminal is in
fact connected to the frame of the welder (and equipment ground).

A few days ago, I did look inside the welding machine at the
commutator and stuff around it, and did not see any such
connection. Since there is a commutator, the connection of work
terminal to ground would need to be done after the commutator, and
there was not much after the commutator, between it and the work
terminal. But perhaps I missed something obvious.

I will definitely check with an ohmmeter, for a definite answer.

Quote:
So you not only have to run AC to the electrode, you have to have
the whole welder and workpiece going from negative to positive at
your pulse rate.

That would be a bummer.

Quote:
If _anybody_ could make that work, I'd love to see it.

But that other thread you've started about "Demolishing electronic
equipment", where it sounds like you don't even know a resistor from
a capacitor, gives me serious qualms about your ability to get this
thing accomplished[1].

That's a valid question, but, on the other hand, this particular
difficulty can be overcome. I mean, I know how to tell one from
another by using test equipment. :)

Quote:
I don't mean to rain on your parade[2]; as I've already said in one of
the other three or four threads about this project, it's your welder,
your IGBT's, your money, your eyes, your house, and etc., so, I wish
you all the luck in the world.

Thank you.

Quote:
The thing is, with a project of this magnitude, I have a feeling that
you're going to need it. (all of the luck in the world, that is.)

That's for sure. On the other hand, I am not doing it completely
alone, there is plenty of people who already showed their ability to
set me on the straight and narrow.

i

Quote:
Good Luck!
Rich
[1] I'd have been a lot less nervous about this if you'd said something
like "salvaging". But that's just my not-so-humble opinion.
[2] On second thought, I guess that's exactly what I'm trying to do.
I'm sorry for that, and like I say, good luck, and try not to win a
Darwin award.
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