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Protel 99SE - a good choice
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Mike Rocket J Squirrel
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - a good choice Reply with quote

Brad Velander wrote:
Quote:
Mike,
One thing that Protel didn't get along with in the P98 & P99SE version
time frame was antivirus scans on open/run and close/save.

Thanks for the thought. You are correct: the problems I am experiencing
are timed randomly, near as I can tell. I have not noticed any open/run
- close/save crashes. Repouring polygons can sometimes trigger the
crash. Moving a bunch of grouped items in PCB can also. Looking at the
screen cross-eyed while considering the next route can, too. Crashes
generally result in a GPF in Module ADVPCB.exe about (and I'm not
exaggerating here) 30 times when re-launching. I literally have 30 GPF's
in a row, serially, that I have to dismiss until they stop. The next
launch will generally be successful.

-- m.e.
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martin.shoebridge
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - a good choice Reply with quote

Just a thought.... could it be faulty memory? Or did you say it was on two
machines??

"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <j.michael.elliott@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote in message
news:AJ-dnbwoVeBnlBTZnZ2dnUVZ_uidnZ2d@adelphia.com...
Quote:
Brad Velander wrote:
Mike,
One thing that Protel didn't get along with in the P98 & P99SE
version time frame was antivirus scans on open/run and close/save.

Thanks for the thought. You are correct: the problems I am experiencing
are timed randomly, near as I can tell. I have not noticed any open/run -
close/save crashes. Repouring polygons can sometimes trigger the crash.
Moving a bunch of grouped items in PCB can also. Looking at the screen
cross-eyed while considering the next route can, too. Crashes generally
result in a GPF in Module ADVPCB.exe about (and I'm not exaggerating here)
30 times when re-launching. I literally have 30 GPF's in a row, serially,
that I have to dismiss until they stop. The next launch will generally be
successful.

-- m.e.
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Mike Elliott
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - a good choice Reply with quote

On 6/9/2006 1:31 AM martin.shoebridge wrote:

Quote:
Just a thought.... could it be faulty memory? Or did you say it was on two
machines??

Two machines. Pretty identical setups. I'm pretty sure it's some utility
that I run in the background that I have determined provides a useful
service and never gives trouble. Except to Protel.

-- m.e.
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Mike Elliott
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - followup Reply with quote

Followup to my original posting about intermittent crashes of old Protel
3.x on both of my WinXP machines. For the archives.

The suggestion that I try running Protel under VM Workstation was an
excellent one. Protel 3.x's autorouter is still a piece of rubbish,and
the program is, overall, still a pain to deal with. But it's running
sweetly under VM Workstation. $189 for VM Workstation is a steal,
compared with the $3,000 I was offered by the local Altium rep for a
pre-owned copy of 99SE, or $10,000 for a seat of Altium.

Many thanks to all who chimed in to offer suggestions!

BTW, if anyone wants to sell their legal copy of 99SE, which I am told
is a good stable Protel, please drop me a note. I am not trolling for
warez.

-- m.e.
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Brad Velander
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 118

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - followup Reply with quote

Mike,
Your chances of finding P99SE for sale (legitimately) is slim. Back when
Protel upgraded to DXP, now AD, there was a run on valid P99SE licenses
amongst the professionals not wanting to upgrade but wanting the security of
additional seats if needed down the road. I used to hear of P99SE licenses
for sale every couple of months. I haven't heard of one being offered for
sale for a couple of years now.

One warning, demand to see the EULA for any purchase in advance and
confirm the legitimacy of the license transfer directly with Altium. Even
back with P99SE, Altium changed the license agreement on late sales of P99SE
to exclude sales and transfers (except if a whole company or company
division and it's assets were purchased). Anyone that upgraded to DXP and
agreed to DXP's license terms, negated their prior EULA that would have
allowed the sale of their prior P99SE license if they also uninstalled the
newer version. The DXP EULA contains wording that negates the
transferability of earlier EULAs. So caution is the word if you really want
to be legit.

The other problem is that a lot of the P99SE support documentation and
tools are no longer to be found on the Altium website. Some are but not a
lot of them. Forget the paper manuals, little better than the online help
and it was never updated over many changes/improvements to the product. If
you did get a license you could try posting so that I notice. I could email
a lot of the support files and documentation as I archived most of it years
ago before it started to disappear.

You could also try the Yahoo groups, there used to be a Yahoo group
"Protel Software for Sale" or something similar. It is one of about 6 groups
if you search for "Protel". It is/was run by a fella named Abd-ul Rahman
just to facilitate sales of old Protel licenses. Sometimes he was selling
licenses that he had purchased, sometimes he was simply acting as a broker.
He is legitimate and trustable, I have been acquainted with him for about 6
years now. If you contacted him he will probably repeat most of what I have
said above and then some.

--
Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

"Mike Elliott" <j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:XNudnbaeYe5CzRLZnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@adelphia.com...
Quote:

BTW, if anyone wants to sell their legal copy of 99SE, which I am told is
a good stable Protel, please drop me a note. I am not trolling for warez.

-- m.e.
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Mike Elliott
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - followup Reply with quote

On 6/13/2006 11:55 PM Brad Velander wrote:

Quote:
Mike,
Your chances of finding P99SE for sale (legitimately) is slim.

Many thanks for the background and tips, Brad!

-- m.e.
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Mike Rocket J Squirrel
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - followup Reply with quote

Brad Velander wrote:

Quote:

The other problem is that a lot of the P99SE support documentation and
tools are no longer to be found on the Altium website. Some are but not a
lot of them. Forget the paper manuals, little better than the online help
and it was never updated over many changes/improvements to the product. If
you did get a license you could try posting so that I notice. I could email
a lot of the support files and documentation as I archived most of it years
ago before it started to disappear.

Brad, I'm not seeing how to de-spam your e-mail address, so I'll post
this any maybe you can send me an e-mail at your convenience - just
delete the GOLLY.

I guess I'm biting the bullet and buying a seat of AD with a "legacy"
25% discount. A costly upgrade for my needs, one that really puts frost
on my pumpkin.

I would like to take you up on your offer for copies of the support
information you so thoughtfully archived.

-- Mike Elliott
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Anton Erasmus
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - a good choice Reply with quote

On Wed, 31 May 2006 11:04:21 -0700, Mike Rocket J Squirrel
<j.michael.elliott@GOLLYgmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
I have been using Protel 3.x for ages (obviously), but under XP it
crashes a lot, for various reasons that are mysterious, despite my best
effort to make XP as compatible as possible. I don't do many boards, and
my needs are simple: schematic capture and board layout, mainly analog,
large-trace, two-sided, hand-placed and routed. About two boards a year.
That said, I have huge schematic and pcb libraries and don't want to
re-create all those bits.

But this week the crashing and other quirks of Protel 3.x have finally
gotten really frustrating, so I contacted my local Altium salesguy and
he quoted me nearly $10,000 to buy a single seat of Designer 6, which is
a bit silly for my needs. He agrees. He suggested that maybe 99SE would
be a better choice, and knows a fellow who is looking to sell his copy
for $3,000.

$3,000 is affordable, but it's not a trivial amount of money. I could
use a bit of advice on this before I plunk down the cash, so TIA who can
maybe provide some guidance.

99SE is reasonably decent. It is a good upgrade from 3.x. I tried
demos of later versions, and for my needs they add nothing worthwhile,
while eating up 10x more resources. Like many other Windows programs,
the programmers seem to be rewriting the application using Microsofts
latest buzzword technologies, making it slower without adding much.
Going from simple monochrome pictures to indicate which dimensions one
is changing for a pad to going to pictures with a shiny copper sheen,
which does not give any more info but takes much more processing power
to display.

Regards
Anton Erasmus
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Anton Erasmus
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel 99SE - a good choice Reply with quote

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:26:54 -0700, Mike Elliott
<j.michael.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
On 6/1/2006 1:24 AM JeffM wrote:

I have been using Protel 3.x for ages (obviously),
but under XP it crashes a lot
[...]this week the crashing and other quirks of Protel 3.x
have finally gotten really frustrating
-- mike elliott (Mike Rocket J Squirrel)

How about a FAT32 partition and a Boot Manager?
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:e0R7iiJZWwQJ:www.programmersheaven.com/zone16/cat764/index.htm+partition-manager+boot-manager+7tools+BootIt+Acronis+Paragon+Partition-Manager-Personal

...or as Speff said, a separate, specialized, retro box for CAD.


Yeah, I reckon that would work. It would sure be less-expensive than
99SE. I could avoid the 99SE learning curve, too. I don't think that
99SE offers anything that I desperately need anyway. So I'll ask my
local computer shop weenies how much they'll charge to slap together a
nifty little machine with 98SE on it.

You can also download a legal copy of VMWare for free now. This way
you can run Win98 inside your XP machine as a virtual machine. Much
nicer than having to dual boot all the time.
http://www.vmware.com

Regards
Anton Erasmus
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