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Parts ordering process.
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pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.lu
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Does there exist any distributor/manufactor "interface" such that one can
supply generic specifications on components like
"R=27.4k Tolerance=1% P=0.25W RoHS" and get stock/leadtime + priceing info
returned ..?
Web interfaces can be screenscraped, but it's not optimal.
Parametric search via web is good step. But it's not there.

All this without haveing to look manually. Which is not fun for any list with
50+ components.

The process could be something like:
Make schematic with electrical specifications, no footprint values.
Send request to distributor for the generic component specification.
Use returned:
footprint as parameter to pcb layout.
priceing info for budget estimations.
stock/leadtime for showstopper alerts.
Let pcb layout program do make a layout with the retrieved footprints/pinout.
Send to fabrication etc..
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Stuart Brorson
electronics forum addict


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.luthdelete.se.invalid wrote:
: Does there exist any distributor/manufactor "interface" such that one can
: supply generic specifications on components like
: "R=27.4k Tolerance=1% P=0.25W RoHS" and get stock/leadtime + priceing info
: returned ..?

DigiKey provides the best web search interface, allowing you to input
your desired component specs, and returning price, stock, etc.
www.newarkinone.com is a trailing second best, if you can figure out
how to get to their parametric search page. Mouser, a distributor who
I used to like, is terrible since they have no parametric search
ability.

: Web interfaces can be screenscraped, but it's not optimal.
: Parametric search via web is good step. But it's not there.

: All this without haveing to look manually. Which is not fun for any list with
: 50+ components.

That's why real companies have procurement departments, with
electronics buyers -- specialists who buy parts off BOMs all day
long. It's not easy. And wait until you need to start managing
procurement lead times to schedule a build ....

Stuart
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Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Stuart Brorson wrote:

Quote:
DigiKey provides the best web search interface, allowing you to input
your desired component specs, and returning price, stock, etc.
www.newarkinone.com is a trailing second best, if you can figure out
how to get to their parametric search page. Mouser, a distributor who
I used to like, is terrible since they have no parametric search
ability.

On the other hand, Mouser always returns a price that is 5 to 15% lower
than Newark, and 2-5% lower than DigiKey. Plus they charge no handling
fees on UPS and FedEX shipping, and no shipping charges on backorders, and
have no minimum order.
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pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.lu
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
Quote:
Stuart Brorson wrote:

DigiKey provides the best web search interface, allowing you to input
your desired component specs, and returning price, stock, etc.
www.newarkinone.com is a trailing second best, if you can figure out
how to get to their parametric search page. Mouser, a distributor who
I used to like, is terrible since they have no parametric search
ability.

On the other hand, Mouser always returns a price that is 5 to 15% lower
than Newark, and 2-5% lower than DigiKey. Plus they charge no handling
fees on UPS and FedEX shipping, and no shipping charges on backorders, and
have no minimum order.

Only need to make a bot that can find components at digikey to get all the
advantages then .. :)

Oh btw.. makes me curious why digikey don't have min qty/price sorting as
choices in their parametric search..
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Stuart Brorson
electronics forum addict


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:
: Stuart Brorson wrote:

:> DigiKey provides the best web search interface, allowing you to input
:> your desired component specs, and returning price, stock, etc.
:> www.newarkinone.com is a trailing second best, if you can figure out
:> how to get to their parametric search page. Mouser, a distributor who
:> I used to like, is terrible since they have no parametric search
:> ability.

: On the other hand, Mouser always returns a price that is 5 to 15% lower
: than Newark, and 2-5% lower than DigiKey. Plus they charge no handling
: fees on UPS and FedEX shipping, and no shipping charges on backorders, and
: have no minimum order.

True enough. But OP asked about web search ability, not price.

Anway, if you are into lower prices, the big distributors like Arrow &
Avnet are the way to go, particularly if you are buying parts on a
commerical basis.

Stuart
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Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Stuart Brorson wrote:
Quote:
Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

: On the other hand, Mouser always returns a price that is 5 to 15% lower
: than Newark, and 2-5% lower than DigiKey. Plus they charge no handling
: fees on UPS and FedEX shipping, and no shipping charges on backorders, and
: have no minimum order.

True enough. But OP asked about web search ability, not price.

Anway, if you are into lower prices, the big distributors like Arrow &
Avnet are the way to go, particularly if you are buying parts on a
commerical basis.

Arrow generally is only better in price if you get into larger quantities.
When you need quantities, and Mouser is too high, go to their parent company TTI.

I am not sure what is bothering you about Mouser's search engine. If I want a
1K resistor, I can search on 1K resistor, and I get a whole slew of parts. Has
Digi-Key done something special lately?

-Chuck
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pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.lu
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Quote:
Arrow generally is only better in price if you get into larger quantities.
When you need quantities, and Mouser is too high, go to their parent company
TTI.

Most non digikey/mouser/rs-components/farnell etc.. are very cumbersome to
deal with unless your doing 1k+ orders.

(Guess that's one of the reasons sw side tend be more "alive" than hw. Due
that barrier of entry is lower. This might affect future recruitment.)

Quote:
I am not sure what is bothering you about Mouser's search engine. If I want
a 1K resistor, I can search on 1K resistor, and I get a whole slew of parts.
Has Digi-Key done something special lately?

When I search digikey, I get a paramtric search so I can _quickly_ optimize
the component values I need vs what's available. When I do the same at mouser.
There's no sorting but you rather get a complex list of what's available.
Unlike digikeys straightforward table with what's available.
Farnell have a similar scheme.

I like being able to specify "cap cer .47uF InStock RoHS Lead" get a listing
with parameters. Where I select the most important first and narrows the list
of components down to the one that fits specification/cost best.

Products that seems hard to find is low-profile gigabit transformers, smps
transformers, smd connectors, partly gigabit phy etc..
Then you have to somehow interact with these 1k+ shops. Which means you get
4 samples or have to buy 1k+ chips..

Google have already been clued on this with their google-api. I find it
stoneagestyle that people have to spend time to match their bom list by hand
to distributors. It should be an automatic, or at least semiautomatic process.
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Spehro Pefhany
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 2326

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

On Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:23:49 -0400, the renowned Chuck Harris
<cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

Quote:
Stuart Brorson wrote:
Chuck Harris <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote:

: On the other hand, Mouser always returns a price that is 5 to 15% lower
: than Newark, and 2-5% lower than DigiKey. Plus they charge no handling
: fees on UPS and FedEX shipping, and no shipping charges on backorders, and
: have no minimum order.

True enough. But OP asked about web search ability, not price.

Anway, if you are into lower prices, the big distributors like Arrow &
Avnet are the way to go, particularly if you are buying parts on a
commerical basis.

Arrow generally is only better in price if you get into larger quantities.
When you need quantities, and Mouser is too high, go to their parent company TTI.

I am not sure what is bothering you about Mouser's search engine. If I want a
1K resistor, I can search on 1K resistor, and I get a whole slew of parts. Has
Digi-Key done something special lately?

-Chuck

How do you search on P-channel MOSFETs in TO-252 good for between 50V
and 100V?



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Joel Kolstad
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 695

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

<pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.luthdelete.se.invalid> wrote in message
news:449b029d$0$486$cc7c7865@news.luth.se...
Quote:
Google have already been clued on this with their google-api. I find it
stoneagestyle that people have to spend time to match their bom list by hand
to distributors. It should be an automatic, or at least semiautomatic
process.

I bet you would be amazed just how many companies there are out there where,
to purchase prototype parts, the engineer sits around, creating a parts list
at, e.g., DigiKey or Mouser to insure that stock is available and find
alternative parts if need be... and then prints this out to give to a
purchasing department that keys it again a second time!
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pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.lu
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 273

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

Joel Kolstad <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.luthdelete.se.invalid> wrote in message
news:449b029d$0$486$cc7c7865@news.luth.se...
Google have already been clued on this with their google-api. I find it
stoneagestyle that people have to spend time to match their bom list by hand
to distributors. It should be an automatic, or at least semiautomatic
process.

I bet you would be amazed just how many companies there are out there where,
to purchase prototype parts, the engineer sits around, creating a parts list
at, e.g., DigiKey or Mouser to insure that stock is available and find
alternative parts if need be... and then prints this out to give to a
purchasing department that keys it again a second time!

It should be possible to solve. And until distributors get clued. One should
be able to construct bots/screenscrapers to accomplish automatic bom keying.
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Stuart Brorson
electronics forum addict


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Parts ordering process. Reply with quote

pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.luthdelete.se.invalid wrote:
: Joel Kolstad <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
:><pbdelete@spamnuke.ludd.luthdelete.se.invalid> wrote in message
:>news:449b029d$0$486$cc7c7865@news.luth.se...
:>> Google have already been clued on this with their google-api. I find it
:>> stoneagestyle that people have to spend time to match their bom list by hand
:>> to distributors. It should be an automatic, or at least semiautomatic
:>> process.

:>I bet you would be amazed just how many companies there are out there where,
:>to purchase prototype parts, the engineer sits around, creating a parts list
:>at, e.g., DigiKey or Mouser to insure that stock is available and find
:>alternative parts if need be... and then prints this out to give to a
:>purchasing department that keys it again a second time!

I'm not amazed at all. It sounds like my life, except that I do this
for *two* procurement departments. First, I do it for the group
responsible for prototype procurement. Then I do it again for the
group responsible for production procurement.

: It should be possible to solve. And until distributors get clued. One should
: be able to construct bots/screenscrapers to accomplish automatic bom keying.

Actually, this isn't nearly enough. For one thing, only a small
handful of vendors report availability on their public websites. And
the reported quantities aren't necessarily accurate.

More vendors appear on special databases which you can access (over
the net) if you are a large commerical entity who buys lots of parts.
I believe these databases are more accurate and complete, but that's
the business of our procurement departments, not mine. I don't know
what policies govern the use of these special databases.

My impression of the electronics procurement/logistics business is
that it is indeed ripe for some kind of reporting standard and a SOAP
or XML based set of tools which can be used to access and search the
vendor databases. However, it's unlikely the big distributors would
like that, since obscurantism allows them to maintain control over
your purchases through them. That is, if I can clearly see that
Vendor A has 1000 parts at one price, Vendor B has 10,000 of the same
part at a different price, and vendor C has 1,000,000 of the part at a
third price, then they have nothing to compete on other than price,
and no vendor wants that.

Stuart
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