FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups 
 ProfileProfile   PreferencesPreferences   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Forum index » Electronix » cad
SPICE on entered schamatic(s)
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 10 of 29 [429 Posts] View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page:  Previous  1, 2, 3, ..., 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, ..., 27, 28, 29 Next
Author Message
Tim Shoppa
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Synchronizing T-flops? Reply with quote

Quote:
This is on an ASIC, so I must DESIGN the circuit

If you have access to the guts of the T-flop cells, you can initialize
them to your desired phasing just by injecting the right currents on
the bases at power-up initialization.

In MSI TTL I used to see a similar trick done, but since the guts of
the cells were not available it used a significantly ruder method of
pulling the outputs to the desired "zero" states at power up through
some NPN transistors. Different manufacturer's chips responded
differently to this "initialization", of course some let their smoke
out Smile.

Tim.
Back to top
Jim Thompson
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Synchronizing T-flops? Reply with quote

On 3 May 2005 06:52:33 -0700, "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>
wrote:

Quote:
This is on an ASIC, so I must DESIGN the circuit

If you have access to the guts of the T-flop cells, you can initialize
them to your desired phasing just by injecting the right currents on
the bases at power-up initialization.

In MSI TTL I used to see a similar trick done, but since the guts of
the cells were not available it used a significantly ruder method of
pulling the outputs to the desired "zero" states at power up through
some NPN transistors. Different manufacturer's chips responded
differently to this "initialization", of course some let their smoke
out Smile.

Tim.

I have access to all the guts... I designed them Wink My problem is
typical... customer has extreme power constraints, and I, personally,
am leery of one-time reset-on-application-of-power situations,
particularly in a noisy consumer-product environment. My preference
is to use self-resetting circuits that "know" that they're
out-of-kilter and get themselves back into rhythm automatically. Thus
my latching (pardon the pun) onto the John/Chris D-flop "sampler" that
tells me where I am phase-wise.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
| http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Back to top
John Larkin
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4320

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Synchronizing T-flops? Reply with quote

On Tue, 03 May 2005 07:08:12 -0700, Jim Thompson
<thegreatone@example.com> wrote:

Quote:
On 3 May 2005 06:52:33 -0700, "Tim Shoppa" <shoppa@trailing-edge.com
wrote:

This is on an ASIC, so I must DESIGN the circuit

If you have access to the guts of the T-flop cells, you can initialize
them to your desired phasing just by injecting the right currents on
the bases at power-up initialization.

In MSI TTL I used to see a similar trick done, but since the guts of
the cells were not available it used a significantly ruder method of
pulling the outputs to the desired "zero" states at power up through
some NPN transistors. Different manufacturer's chips responded
differently to this "initialization", of course some let their smoke
out Smile.

Tim.

I have access to all the guts... I designed them Wink My problem is
typical... customer has extreme power constraints, and I, personally,
am leery of one-time reset-on-application-of-power situations,
particularly in a noisy consumer-product environment. My preference
is to use self-resetting circuits that "know" that they're
out-of-kilter and get themselves back into rhythm automatically. Thus
my latching (pardon the pun) onto the John/Chris D-flop "sampler" that
tells me where I am phase-wise.

...Jim Thompson


I doubt that a powerup reset would organize your phase relationships
here.

We had a similar problem a few years ago, on the NIF timing thing. We
had a 77 MHz biphase data stream and a 155.52 MHz (OC-3 rate)
recovered clock. Since data recovery was ambiguous (depended on clk/2)
we built in an OOPS counter that eventually decided we were at the
wrong phase and XORd the recovery clock.

John
Back to top
Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:
Quote:
On 5/2/2005 11:30 AM Tom Loredo wrote:


Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, UPS Worldship, Quickbooks,
Quicken . . . those are my major reasons to stick with WinXP. I'm a
one-man show, not just an engineer.

Well, you can use all those under Mac OS X, *and* gEDA


snip

Well, I don't know if buying a Mac and re-buying all the apps I listed
just to run gEDA is going to be much of a cost savings over updating my
Protel 3.5 Client to the Latest. It is certainly a lot more expensive
than just staying as-is.



On the otherhand, most anybody can find a spare 20G partition on their
hard drive these days. Load linux into that partition, ask Grub to make
your machine a dual boot machine with *gack* 'doze as the primary/default
boot, install gEDA in the usual way, and join the crowd.

-Chuck
Back to top
Stuart Brorson
electronics forum addict


Joined: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott <j.michael.elliottAT@removetheobviousgmaildot.com> wrote:

[. . . . snip . . . .]

: Well, I don't know if buying a Mac and re-buying all the apps I listed
: just to run gEDA is going to be much of a cost savings over updating my
: Protel 3.5 Client to the Latest. It is certainly a lot more expensive
: than just staying as-is.

I never understand the folks who cite the cost of migrating away from
Windoze. If you live in a metropolitan area of any size, it's
quite common to see older PCs thrown away regularly. It doesn't take
much time or effort to assemble a collection of free PCs by scrounging
them from the trash. If one doesn't work, you can use it to provide
parts for another one. Then, download an .iso of your favorite Linux
distribution, install it on one of the junk PCs, and -- voila --
you've got a free engineering workstation more powerful than a
high-end Sun box from the later '90s [1].

Some of my gEDA test platforms were assembled this way. After all,
software testing should take place on heterogeneous systems!

Anyway, cost is no excuse to not try out gEDA on Linux.

Stuart

[1] Yes, this argument doesn't apply to the case of a corporate IT
department. But it does apply to a one-man consulting shop, which is
the situation here, right?
Back to top
Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Stuart Brorson wrote:

Quote:

I never understand the folks who cite the cost of migrating away from
Windoze. If you live in a metropolitan area of any size, it's
quite common to see older PCs thrown away regularly. It doesn't take
much time or effort to assemble a collection of free PCs by scrounging
them from the trash. If one doesn't work, you can use it to provide
parts for another one. Then, download an .iso of your favorite Linux
distribution, install it on one of the junk PCs, and -- voila --
you've got a free engineering workstation more powerful than a
high-end Sun box from the later '90s [1].

Some of my gEDA test platforms were assembled this way. After all,
software testing should take place on heterogeneous systems!

Anyway, cost is no excuse to not try out gEDA on Linux.


It's even less expensive than that. What modern PC doesn't have at least
a 100Gb drive? And you use all that space for what... pron movies?

Every linux ISO I have met has a partition editor that will quite happily
take some of the 80Gb left on your 100Gb drive and form a nice little
10 to 20Gb partition for Linux. And as any linux user well knows linux
can be quite happy in a partition that size.

That makes adding linux to your pc bag-of-tricks free.

-Chuck
Back to top
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel E
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

On 5/3/2005 9:04 AM Chuck Harris wrote:

Quote:
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

On 5/2/2005 11:30 AM Tom Loredo wrote:


Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator, UPS Worldship, Quickbooks,
Quicken . . . those are my major reasons to stick with WinXP. I'm a
one-man show, not just an engineer.

Well, you can use all those under Mac OS X, *and* gEDA



snip

Well, I don't know if buying a Mac and re-buying all the apps I listed
just to run gEDA is going to be much of a cost savings over updating
my Protel 3.5 Client to the Latest. It is certainly a lot more
expensive than just staying as-is.



On the otherhand, most anybody can find a spare 20G partition on their
hard drive these days. Load linux into that partition, ask Grub to make
your machine a dual boot machine with *gack* 'doze as the primary/default
boot, install gEDA in the usual way, and join the crowd.

But then I've booted into Linux, and can't reach the Windoze apps when a
customer calls to ask about his account balance (Quickbooks), etc., etc.
I reckon a separate cheap-o junk box running Linux is the better
solution. But is it worth doing all that just to try out gEDA? My
original post had to do with gEDA vs. my Ancient Creaky Protel 3.5 Client.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
Back to top
Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:

Quote:
On the otherhand, most anybody can find a spare 20G partition on their
hard drive these days. Load linux into that partition, ask Grub to make
your machine a dual boot machine with *gack* 'doze as the primary/default
boot, install gEDA in the usual way, and join the crowd.


But then I've booted into Linux, and can't reach the Windoze apps when a
customer calls to ask about his account balance (Quickbooks), etc., etc.
I reckon a separate cheap-o junk box running Linux is the better
solution. But is it worth doing all that just to try out gEDA? My
original post had to do with gEDA vs. my Ancient Creaky Protel 3.5 Client.


Well, let's see, Quickbooks should be able to run under wine, and there is
certainly an equivalent package to Quickbooks, perhaps gnucash? If you do get
another box to run linux, install VNC on both it and the 'doze box, and you can
run all of the 'doze applications from a window in the linux box over the
ethernet.

Linux is quite good about mounting dos/doze partitions and interoperating with
them.

I run linux as my main system, and keep a laptop around that is dual boot so
I can run vendor software that has to run under 'doze.
Back to top
Joel Kolstad
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 695

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:JuKdnTdLTPtOZurfRVn-tA@rcn.net...
Quote:
Well, let's see, Quickbooks should be able to run under wine, and there is
certainly an equivalent package to Quickbooks, perhaps gnucash?

Does it read Quicken files?

A BIG reason people resist changing to Linux -- even when the tools are
arguably 'good enough' or even as good as the PC versions -- is that they have
hundreds or thousands or hours invested in creating their data and they don't
want to re-enter it all.

Sun was very smart in insuring that OpenOffice could read and write -- most --
Microsoft Office files.

Quote:
If you do get
another box to run linux, install VNC on both it and the 'doze box, and you
can
run all of the 'doze applications from a window in the linux box over the
ethernet.

My experience with VNC is that it still has various minor 'glitches' where the
screen doesn't always refresh quite right. I mean, for free I'm not
complaining -- it's an excellent product and I love the ability to control a
machine remotely. However, it's just not as 'usable' as either an X Server
connection or a Windows Remote Desktop (aka Terminal Server) connection.
Back to top
Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 12:31 am    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Joel Kolstad wrote:
Quote:
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:JuKdnTdLTPtOZurfRVn-tA@rcn.net...

Well, let's see, Quickbooks should be able to run under wine, and there is
certainly an equivalent package to Quickbooks, perhaps gnucash?


Does it read Quicken files?

I don't know, but I think gnucash was meant as a replacement for Money.
I haven't had time to investigate it fully. There is also something called
abicash, IIRC. The target is there, it will be hit.
Quote:

A BIG reason people resist changing to Linux -- even when the tools are
arguably 'good enough' or even as good as the PC versions -- is that they have
hundreds or thousands or hours invested in creating their data and they don't
want to re-enter it all.

Sun was very smart in insuring that OpenOffice could read and write -- most --
Microsoft Office files.


If you do get
another box to run linux, install VNC on both it and the 'doze box, and you

can

run all of the 'doze applications from a window in the linux box over the
ethernet.


My experience with VNC is that it still has various minor 'glitches' where the
screen doesn't always refresh quite right. I mean, for free I'm not
complaining -- it's an excellent product and I love the ability to control a
machine remotely. However, it's just not as 'usable' as either an X Server
connection or a Windows Remote Desktop (aka Terminal Server) connection.

'Taint VNC's fault. Windows is inconsistant with the way it updates the screen.
The folks that wrote VNC have come out with a new release recently. It appears
to work better than before.

If you could find a good X terminal for Windows, then you could run linux in a
window on windoze. After all, linux's graphical user interfaces are all running
through the loopback ethernet interface. It's nice when things are designed on
purpose.

What I do, is run windows on a laptop that is a VNC server. Then I can keep a
windows window on my linux desktop.

-Chuck
Back to top
Mike Rocket J. Squirrel E
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

On 5/3/2005 7:31 PM Chuck Harris wrote:

Quote:
Joel Kolstad wrote:

"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:JuKdnTdLTPtOZurfRVn-tA@rcn.net...

Well, let's see, Quickbooks should be able to run under wine, and
there is
certainly an equivalent package to Quickbooks, perhaps gnucash?



Does it read Quicken files?


I don't know, but I think gnucash was meant as a replacement for Money.
I haven't had time to investigate it fully. There is also something called
abicash, IIRC. The target is there, it will be hit.

Quicken (personal finance) and Quickbook (business finance). Very
different files. QB has inventory, etc., what you need for running a
small manufacturing concern.

Quote:

A BIG reason people resist changing to Linux -- even when the tools are
arguably 'good enough' or even as good as the PC versions -- is that
they have
hundreds or thousands or hours invested in creating their data and
they don't
want to re-enter it all.

That's it in a nutshell for me.

<snip>

Quote:
What I do, is run windows on a laptop that is a VNC server. Then I can
keep a
windows window on my linux desktop.

-Chuck

I reckon that I do 98% of my work using Windows apps. If I wanted gEDA
so much that I just had to start using it, I would probably run it in a
VNC'd window on my Win box.

But any way the mustard is cut, deciding to go gEDA for schematic
capture and pcb layout would be a big investment in time, not only
because of learning curve and library re-creation, but simply setting up
hardware and getting things to talk to each other, like my wireless
printers and stuff.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 Type 2: the Wonderbus
84 Westfalia: "Mellow Yellow (The Electrical Banana)"
KG6RCR
Back to top
JeffM
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1007

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Quote:
Sun was very smart in insuring that OpenOffice could read and write
-- most -- Microsoft Office files.
Joel Kolstad

I wish folks would be more concise
when they post stuff like this about OOo.

OpenOffice.org has a reputation
for being able to open M$ documents BETTER than do M$ apps.[1]
e.g. Using a new version of WinWord
to open a DOC which was created with an older version of WinWord
has failed for many people--who then use OOo to easily open the DOC.

[1]The exception is files which contain VBA macros.
Back to top
Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Ok, I finally have had some time to investigate GNUCash. It appears to be a
functional clone of Quicken, QuickBooks, and MSMoney.

It handles simple tasks like checkbooks, mortgages, bank accounts, paychecks...
It also handles business tasks like payroll, inventories, accounts payable,and
receivable, depreciation, taxes, ...

It appears to be a full, simple accounting system for home finance, and small
business finance. I am going to give it a whirl on replacing my business book
keeping tasks.

If you want to know more about it, there is a full blown help system available
on the web, just google gnucash help.

Joel Kolstad wrote:
Quote:
"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:JuKdnTdLTPtOZurfRVn-tA@rcn.net...

Well, let's see, Quickbooks should be able to run under wine, and there is
certainly an equivalent package to Quickbooks, perhaps gnucash?


Does it read Quicken files?

It reads QIF files, which are available from MSMoney, Quicken, and QuickBooks.

Quote:

A BIG reason people resist changing to Linux -- even when the tools are
arguably 'good enough' or even as good as the PC versions -- is that they have
hundreds or thousands or hours invested in creating their data and they don't
want to re-enter it all.

That doesn't apply here, as GNUCash already has that avenue of migration covered.

-Chuck
Back to top
Chuck Harris
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 326

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2005 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: gEDA suite vs my creaky old Protel Client 3.5? Reply with quote

Mike Rocket J. Squirrel Elliott wrote:
Quote:
On 5/3/2005 7:31 PM Chuck Harris wrote:

Joel Kolstad wrote:

"Chuck Harris" <cf-NO-SPAM-harris@erols.com> wrote in message
news:JuKdnTdLTPtOZurfRVn-tA@rcn.net...

Well, let's see, Quickbooks should be able to run under wine, and
there is
certainly an equivalent package to Quickbooks, perhaps gnucash?




Does it read Quicken files?

It imports Quicken Interchange Format (QIF), Open Financial Exchange (OFX),
and Home Banking Computer Interface (HBCI).

Quote:
I don't know, but I think gnucash was meant as a replacement for Money.
I haven't had time to investigate it fully. There is also something
called
abicash, IIRC. The target is there, it will be hit.


Quicken (personal finance) and Quickbook (business finance). Very
different files. QB has inventory, etc., what you need for running a
small manufacturing concern.

GnuCash is designed to do what Quicken, QuickBooks, and MSMoney do, and more.
It handles inventories, payroll, accounts payable and receivable, ...

And best of all, it is a true double entry accounting system. Unlike our
friends with the "Q".

It has many different forms of reports and graphs (of course)

I am going to convert my manually controlled books over to GnuCash this
year.

GNUCash is yet another reason to leave the windoze monarchy.

-Chuck
Back to top
Jon Elson
electronics forum addict


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Protel DXP2004 Reply with quote

Franklin wrote:

Quote:
Op Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:30:43 +1200 schreef Simon Peacock:



And that is the secret of EDA. Its a small market so if you make it too
much like other companies... then users can swap :-)

I have been working with Protel for many years.. 15 or more... and each time
they do a major release it has more bugs than windows 2.
That being said, service packs come out thick and fast.. some add new
features, others fix 'issues' as there are no bugs anymore Smile
So if you find it buggy.. make sure you install the current service pack.
Its very important.


Simon



What is you opinion on Protel 99SE SP6? Some say that it was quite stable
and most bugs fixed on the release of SP6. What was/is your experience
in this regard?


I have 2 seats of 99SE. One at "work", the other at "home". It is

quite reliable.
There are a few quirks in some of the viewing stuff, the PLD stuff is
very rough,
but the schematic--PCB part is rock solid. There are a couple of known
ways to
slip defects past the design rule checks (like vias right between split
power planes)
but you just about have to try to do something that will mess it up.
Following just
a couple of procedures will get perfect boards every time. The parts
libraries
are not real good or consistent, and everybody recommends you build your own
parts and footprint libraries to make sure the hole sizes are what you
want, etc.

I've been using 99SE pretty much since it came out, and it is really
quite good. Also,
you don't find that you've fogotten how to use it after just a weekend
off! Some other
packages are so darn complex and non-intuitive that you can't remember
how to use
it after just a couple of days.

Jon
Back to top
Google

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Page 10 of 29 [429 Posts] Goto page:  Previous  1, 2, 3, ..., 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, ..., 27, 28, 29 Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
The time now is Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:21 am | All times are GMT
Forum index » Electronix » cad
Jump to:  

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
No new posts UC384X Spice other6614 cad 1 Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:21 pm
No new posts spice mos transistor saturation bill_jetson321@yahoo.com design 3 Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:42 pm
No new posts SPICE simulation of finite Q inductors Joel Kolstad design 16 Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:27 pm
No new posts Spice circuits with photoresistors or photodiodes Nicolae Fieraru design 1 Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:32 am
No new posts Non-linear model for SPICE wombat cad 2 Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:44 am

Copyright © 2004-2005 DeniX Solutions SRL
Other DeniX Solutions sites: Unix/Linux blog |  Unix/Linux documentation |  Unix/Linux forums |  Medicine forum |  Science forum  |  Send and track newsletters


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group