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Notebook computer sized cells..... Where to buy ?
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Bob Eager
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

--
Bob Eager
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Bob Eager
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:44 UTC, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

Sorry, didn't make it clear. These are the actual APC products.

--
Bob Eager
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David Mahon
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-PdFBQGemsSi4@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, Bob Eager
<rde42@spamcop.net> writes
Quote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

That seems a bit much for an RBC6 (not much less than APC who want
119.99 excluding vat and delivery).

39.29 + delivery (9.40) and VAT at the site I mentioned for an RBC6. An
RBC7 is 79.41

--
David Mahon
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David Mahon
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-21yYq7dpEZTu@rikki.tavi.co.uk>, Bob Eager
<rde42@spamcop.net> writes
Quote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:44 UTC, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

Sorry, didn't make it clear. These are the actual APC products.

I bought Yuasa at a 1/3 of the price APC charged for their cells. When I
opened up my UPS to fit them, guess what APC had fitted at the factory.
Yep - the exact same Yuasa cells, the only difference being the letters
APC stamped on the grey plastic (along with all the regular Yuasa
branding/markings).
--
David Mahon
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Guest






PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005, Bob Eager wrote:

Quote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:03:44 UTC, "Bob Eager" <rde42@spamcop.net> wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:50:08 UTC, David Mahon <news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:

When you do come to replace yours, look at:

http://www.upsbattery.co.uk/ (owned by the following)
http://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/

rather than directly at APC - who charge 2-3 times more for the same
cells in their RBC6 kit. This could still have happened even if I'd paid
the 120 pounds directly to APC.

I replaced two RBC7s this year, and got them for a good deal less than
the 170 pounds quoted by APC. I paid 123.00 delivered, although as you
say they might well fail the same way anyway.

My supplier is doing RBC6 for 111.96 delivered, all inclusive.

Sorry, didn't make it clear. These are the actual APC products.

Excellent. Thanks for the info, guys. I notice my UPS does a load run for
about 10 seconds once a week but this has had no effect on the quoted
runtime figure and the runtime has only changed (reduced) since we had
a 15 minutes powercut. I really should do a complete run-to-flat operation
to see how mich capacity the batteries really have.
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MSC
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:41:40 +0100, David Mahon
<news@amigo.co.uk> wrote:


Quote:
I bought Yuasa at a 1/3 of the price APC charged for their cells. When I
opened up my UPS to fit them, guess what APC had fitted at the factory.
Yep - the exact same Yuasa cells, the only difference being the letters
APC stamped on the grey plastic (along with all the regular Yuasa
branding/markings).


True, SLA batteries are common commodity items, there is no
reason to buy from APC unless it was a rare, proprietary
cell.
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Andrew Gabriel
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

In article <9cdkd15b1heb8l062kkmr0k214s6ufu55d@4ax.com>,
kony <spam@spam.com> writes:
Quote:

True, SLA batteries are common commodity items, there is no
reason to buy from APC unless it was a rare, proprietary
cell.

They used to fit the next size up connectors to their SLA's, from
what you'll standardly find on the same size/capacity commodity
SLA. Not sure if that's still the case.

--
Andrew Gabriel
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

I had a strange symptom of a UPS problem - the Carbon Monoxide detector
in my living room started indicating low levels (about 17ppm I think)
when it usually reads zero and there were no sources of it in the room
- the gas fire wasn't being used.

Then I noticed I was getting high temperatures inside the UPS, to a
pattern. It would run at its usual level (around +32C) for some hours,
then start rising over about half an hour, getting to about +50C, then
falling back again. I opened it up and found that the batteries were
bulging, and I had to lever them out with a crowbar!

I contacted APC who said that obviously the batteries were knackered,
but because of the swelling I should get a whole new UPS (yeah, right!
Smile I went to MDS (on the North Circular near Edmonton, I think) and
bought the new batteries there for about a third of the APC price. I
had to do a bit of work to fit the old bits to the new batteries - they
have some plastic plates and a set of leads and connectors that
presumably would come with them from APC, and the two batteries are
stuck together to form one unit. A bit of prising and resticking of
the plates and some gaffa tape to hold the batteries together did the
job, and they've been working fine since.

This is a Smart-UPS 1400 iNet by the way, and the original batteries
lasted 5 years (APC reckon 3 years is their design life). The
batteries I fitted were the same type of Yuasa that APC use,
incidentally.

The UPS top-up charges the battery from time to time, but also does
some "maintenance" of the battery if you are using the Powerchute
software - you can schedule self-tests and "calibration" runs, and I
had the latter being done monthly, which runs it down to the "low
battery" condition then recharges it, noting the energy needed to
discharge it, so it can calculate run-time remaining.

I think the failure mode was this: The batteries were worn out, and
the top-up charge was overcharging their (reduced) capacity and the
excess energy went to heat, raising the temperature and pressure,
causing the casing to soften and bulge. Then the pressure-limiting
vents let out some of the gasses (Hydrogen and Oxygen) and that's what
my CO detector was reading. This reduced the battery capacity even
more, and lead to a downward spiral. As more electrolyte was lost, the
peak temperature during the top-up charge would have risen further and
further, but I got to it before it reached the stage of thermal
shutdown, as David's did.

If David's unit is still overheating even with new batteries, there is
obviously another problem, and maybe a case for a new unit, but if only
the old batteries overheated, new ones should solve it. Mine has been
running with the MDS-supplied batteries for about 16 months now, with
no problems (so much for APC's suggestion to replace it! :-)

Oh, and the battery voltage has been showing 27.74V for some time
according to the logs, so I think the reading given above is perfectly
normal!

Cheers,

Howard
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Jeremy C B Nicoll
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

In article <1121677526.998534.263490@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<HDRW@H2Org.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
I think the failure mode was this: ... Then the pressure-limiting
vents let out some of the gasses (Hydrogen and Oxygen) and that's what
my CO detector was reading.

Why would you think that a CO detector would be triggered by other
gases? Isn't it more likely that someing in the UPS was actually
combusting?

Quote:
If David's unit is still overheating even with new batteries, there
is obviously another problem, and maybe a case for a new unit, but if
only the old batteries overheated, new ones should solve it.

Suppose the problem is in the control electronics? Putting in new
batteries will just get them wrecked.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
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MSC
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

On 17 Jul 2005 13:46:29 GMT, andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

Quote:
In article <9cdkd15b1heb8l062kkmr0k214s6ufu55d@4ax.com>,
kony <spam@spam.com> writes:

True, SLA batteries are common commodity items, there is no
reason to buy from APC unless it was a rare, proprietary
cell.

They used to fit the next size up connectors to their SLA's, from
what you'll standardly find on the same size/capacity commodity
SLA. Not sure if that's still the case.

Personally I'd buy the more standard battery and swap the
connectors on the APC's battery leads (with appropriate
aftermarket ones).
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Peter Corlett
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

Jeremy C B Nicoll <Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
Quote:
Why would you think that a CO detector would be triggered by other
gases? Isn't it more likely that someing in the UPS was actually
combusting?

It depends on the technology used to detect CO. Some actually use an
artificial haemoglobin which darkens when it binds to CO, and this is
picked up with a light sensor.

Others use tin dioxide on a ceramic base with wires running through.
This causes it to be electrically charged and attracts both O2 and CO
which both affect the resistance - a low resistance corresponds to a
high level of CO. Other molecules can be attracted and cause false
readings, but typically these don't normally appear in high enough
concentrations to make any difference so it's a reasonable test.
Besides, if it does pick up an unusual gas in the atmosphere, wouldn't
you rather be safe than sorry?

--
PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key

Please contribute to the beer fund and a tidier house:
http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZpndc
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Jeremy C B Nicoll
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

In article <42de3027$0$30957$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
Peter Corlett <abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk> wrote:

Quote:
It depends on the technology used to detect CO... Besides, if it does
pick up an unusual gas in the atmosphere, wouldn't you rather be safe
than sorry?

Yes, but I didn't think O was that rare, though maybe H is.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
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Peter Corlett
electronics forum beginner


Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: UPS Reply with quote

Jeremy C B Nicoll <Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
Peter Corlett <abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk> wrote:
It depends on the technology used to detect CO... Besides, if it
does pick up an unusual gas in the atmosphere, wouldn't you rather
be safe than sorry?
Yes, but I didn't think O was that rare, though maybe H is.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_atmosphere.

Summary: Oxygen is extremely plentiful, hydrogen is pretty rare.

--
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
- Benjamin Franklin
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JeffM
electronics forum Guru


Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 1007

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: "i want to detect the power lost & do 2 short 1 sec isolated dry contact pulse whit a 120 sec delay for the second pulse (no power just n_o that close).txt" (1/1) Reply with quote

Quote:
help would greatly be apreciated.
Budman

A: Turn off html, and post only plain text.
B: Post only ASCII text to the newsgroup.
C: Proofread your post for grammar, spelling, syntax, and content.
Rich Grise, Self-Appointed Chief, Apostrophe Police

D) Try to make your Subject lines shorter than 161 characters
(The original post didn't make it to me.)

Rich,
What do you see as the difference
between plain text (A) and ASCII (B)?
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Mike Harrison
electronics forum Guru Wannabe


Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Need oscilloscope with realtime multiplier Reply with quote

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 12:33:15 -0400, "BFoelsch" <BFoelsch@comcast.ditch.this.net> wrote:

Quote:
Hmmmmm, I did not realize that the Tek models listed had a multiplication
function. They have FFT (of sorts) but no multiplication.

Or did I miss something?

backon@vms.huji.ac.il> wrote in message news:2005Jul21.202724@hujicc...
For an experiment, a colleague in the Toronto area urgently needs
access to an oscilloscope with realtime multiplication (e.g.
Tektronics TDS-1012, 2012, 2014 or any model with a FFT option
which would have the multiplier function in its mathematics
setting). He would be willing to pay for use.

Thanks in advance


Dr. Josh Backon
at the medical school

My HP54654D has an a*b function - I guess others in the series probably do as well.
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